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chengrob

Pledge of Allegiance Under Attack

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Lets make the whole class stand up and pledge their lives to Allah, and jihad. I mean really no one would give a :filtered: so thats the way it should be.

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well I will just say this...

 

I can remember placing my hand over my little heart in 1st grade and learning to say the pledge each morning....I never minded doing this everyday before class started... it did then and does now make me feel proud of my country when reciting it. Just like hearing the national anthem...

 

If I didn't want my kid to say these words in the pledge I would merely have them sit down and not participate. They are making a mountain out of a molehill when we have far more bigger issues at hand than this at the moment.

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Here's my analogy. Atheism is to Religion as Fasting is to Eating. The Constitution gives broad rights and privileges to allow anyone to freely practice their religion of their choosing. But I do not believe that the framers were considering Atheism a religion. And therefore, these Constitutional rights do not apply to Atheists. Flatly said, Atheism is not a religion.

 

The words "Under God" in the pledge were chosen not to favor any religion over another. If they had chosen, Under Christ, or Under Allah, or Under Yahwey, I believe that would have been unconstitutional. But the words Under God, only upset those who don't believe in God, and I don't believe that they should be viewed as a religion.

 

By placing the words "Under God" in the pledge, the only interpretation is that our roots and also our present is that we are a religious nation. This is an undeniable fact going back to the Quakers and the Pilgrims up to the Born Again Christian movements of the 20th century. I hate to tell the Atheists, but changing the words in the pledge, isn't going to change the underlying facts.

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I think that the constitution writers' issue was about govt. establishing religion. "Under God" would seem to establish that there is a monotheistic religion.

Second, Polytheism is a religion. So if the argument prevails that atheists do not enjoy freedom from religion then there is still a problem with "Under God". I suppose there are other options than removing "Under God". It could be changed to "Under God and/or Gods". I think that many monotheists might object to the suggestion that suggests that there maybe more than 1 God. I don't think that flows very well either.

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After hours of agonizing over this issue...I say the people who don't want to hear "under God" recited in school can just put their fingers in their ears and goPosted Image

 

:lol:

 

People are too damn sensitive these days!!!!!! :geezer:

Edited by andromeda

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Here's my analogy. Atheism is to Religion as Fasting is to Eating. The Constitution gives broad rights and privileges to allow anyone to freely practice their religion of their choosing. But I do not believe that the framers were considering Atheism a religion. And therefore, these Constitutional rights do not apply to Atheists. Flatly said, Atheism is not a religion.

 

The words "Under God" in the pledge were chosen not to favor any religion over another. If they had chosen, Under Christ, or Under Allah, or Under Yahwey, I believe that would have been unconstitutional. But the words Under God, only upset those who don't believe in God, and I don't believe that they should be viewed as a religion.

 

By placing the words "Under God" in the pledge, the only interpretation is that our roots and also our present is that we are a religious nation. This is an undeniable fact going back to the Quakers and the Pilgrims up to the Born Again Christian movements of the 20th century. I hate to tell the Atheists, but changing the words in the pledge, isn't going to change the underlying facts.

:tup: I'll drink to that :beer: <----- Dr. Pepper

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Here's my analogy.  Atheism is to Religion as Fasting is to Eating.  The Constitution gives broad rights and privileges to allow anyone to freely practice their religion of their choosing.  But I do not believe that the framers were considering Atheism a religion.  And therefore, these Constitutional rights do not apply to Atheists.  Flatly said, Atheism is not a religion. 

 

The words "Under God" in the pledge were chosen not to favor any religion over another.  If they had chosen, Under Christ, or Under Allah, or Under Yahwey, I believe that would have been unconstitutional.  But the words Under God, only upset those who don't believe in God, and I don't believe that they should be viewed as a religion.

 

By placing the words "Under God" in the pledge, the only interpretation is that our roots and also our present is that we are a religious nation.  This is an undeniable fact going back to the Quakers and the Pilgrims up to the Born Again Christian movements of the 20th century.  I hate to tell the Atheists, but changing the words in the pledge, isn't going to change the underlying facts.

Do you mean the underlying fact that it was the "Nights of Columbus" that got the words Under God adde3d in, as recent as 1954?

 

Or the underlying fact that the author of the Pledge, was a Christian preacher who deliberately left such references to God out of it.

 

In 1954, Congress after a campaign by the Knights of Columbus, added the words, 'under God,' to the Pledge. The Pledge was now both a patriotic oath and a public prayer.

 

Bellamy's granddaughter said he also would have resented this second change. He had been pressured into leaving his church in 1891 because of his socialist sermons. In his retirement in Florida, he stopped attending church because he disliked the racial bigotry he found there.

 

What follows is Bellamy's own account of some of the thoughts that went through his mind in August, 1892, as he picked the words of his Pledge:

 

It began as an intensive communing with salient points of our national history, from the Declaration of Independence onwards; with the makings of the Constitution...with the meaning of the Civil War; with the aspiration of the people...

 

The true reason for allegiance to the Flag is the 'republic for which it stands.' ...And what does that vast thing, the Republic mean? It is the concise political word for the Nation - the One Nation which the Civil War was fought to prove. To make that One Nation idea clear, we must specify that it is indivisible, as Webster and Lincoln used to repeat in their great speeches.

 

Just here arose the temptation of the historic slogan of the French Revolution which meant so much to Jefferson and his friends, 'Liberty, equality, fraternity.' No, that would be too fanciful, too many thousands of years off in realization. But we as a nation do stand square on the doctrine of liberty and justice for all...

The Pledge was just fine the way it was originally written, before it was "attacked" by people with motivations other then liberty, freedom, unity......what they accomplished was to divide not unify.

Edited by Bruce

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Ahh... I still don't have a problem with the words "under god" gods big territory and covers many things for many people...if ya don't wish to say them 2 words...then don't.

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Leave them out to begin with seems to be the more "intelligent" solution. Return the document to it's original state. If you want to add in mumbo jumbo, voodoo, black magic....then do it "personally" and leave our nations documents alone.

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back to american money

 

in god we trust, if you can spend it and not complain you can say it to, or dont say it at all, it wont hurt anyone to stay silent, but remember if your an american our soldiers are fighting and dying for americans, if this makes any sense.

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Well, the nation WAS founded not by Christians but Deists.

 

Therefore, they DID believe in God but did not believe in revealed religion. They were quite specific in keeping religion out of government but God and religion are different categories. God therefore is what the nation was founded on, the free-will God endowed us therefore, since religion is not being instituted I don't see a problem with it. Again, I don't think saying "Under God" is pushing religion on anyone as I don't think God and religion are the same.

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They cant say "under god" but they sure as hell dont mind going to the store and spending the money the US prints that says "In God We Trust" on every bill we print!

 

Why dont they :filtered: about that :rolleyes:

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Well, the nation WAS founded not by Christians but Deists. 

 

Therefore, they DID believe in God but did not believe in revealed religion.  They were quite specific in keeping religion out of government but God and religion are different categories.  God therefore is what the nation was founded on, the free-will God endowed us therefore, since religion is not being instituted I don't see a problem with it.  Again, I don't think saying "Under God" is pushing religion on anyone as I don't think God and religion are the same.

What do the Knights of Columbus (they had the words added)...have to do with the founders of our country?

 

Or what do the founders of our country have to do with a document that was written after the Civil war?

 

The Knights of Columbus is a Catholic men's fraternal benefit society that was formed to render financial aid to members and their families.

 

I am quite positive what the meaning and intentions were when they fought to "change" a well written Pledge to have their god included in it.

 

Religion based organizations should not be allowed to foster the alteration of our countries Pledge or any other document.

Edited by Bruce

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I think the main question is does "Under God" institute a religion. I stated I don't think it does because religion and God are two different things. You don't have to be a religious person to believe in God.

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Leave them out to begin with seems to be the more "intelligent" solution. Return the document to it's original state. If you want to add in mumbo jumbo, voodoo, black magic....then do it "personally" and leave our nations documents alone.

Never said I was 'intelligent'...said those words don't bother me.

 

 

If they bother ya that much ya must have forgot your meds... :mrgreen:

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I do believe in god. I do not think god...mine, yours, or anyone else should have a place in our government, and I certainly do not think such things should be forced upon our nations children.

 

Now before you say no one forces them, think back to when you were in kindergarten, 1st, 2nd...grades. When told to "stand" and say the Pledge, you did it, without question, these words become ingrained in you, whether you like it or not.

 

Simply is not right, simply is not Constitutional, simply is not the way "freedom, liberty, equality, and justice for all was originally intended.

 

The meddlers should have just left well enough alone. and their wouldn't even be a need for such a divisional question. Indivisible, indivisible, indivisible looses it's meaning when you divide things with "god"

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Never said I was 'intelligent'...said those words don't bother me.

 

 

If they bother ya that much ya must have forgot your meds... :mrgreen:

No need for meds.

 

Go nurse a bottle why don't ya. ;)

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I see your point Bruce... but think you and others are making a mountain out of a molehill on the under god language...we keep veering to the left too much for my likes...god keeps me to the right... :mrgreen: v

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Nothing wrong with God, v. I have a great "personal" relationship with him. I don't allow him to sway me left or right. and I would prefer my government not be swayed in either direction by anyone else god.

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back in the 70's in elem..... there were a few students that didnt haveto say anything, they stood in there seats for what ever reason

 

but were saying were forced is not true, parents telling there children not to do it is wrong as well, iether way its planted in the childs head.

 

our children should be free to decide on there own, although there too young to understand, what if they grow and decide they want to believe, for all those young years they were told not too.

 

things should be left alone

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