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Police Shoot Man dead

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Y'all are going through some very scary times there...mistakes will be made...and I hope they get it all sorted soon....

and theres the point exactly

 

no one is condemming the Police at all. In fact I complimented how they handled the capture of the other 3 suspected terrorists

 

Some comments on this thread

 

The shoot to kill policy still stands and is still much needed

There is NO 'shoot to kill' policy

Which one is it Sir T.. you said both of these

 

It is only used when the officers involved believe it to be the best option at any given time

IMO should be ONLY option at any given time.

 

I don't recall seeing anything that says they will shoot anyone they believe to be a terrorist (as ypu seem to suggest is the case).

Well then.. How did he get killed??? They believed him to be a terrorist and shot him in the head 7 times. ummm, sounds like exactly what happened

 

I just hate to see the anti establishment yahoos get us bogged down on one unfortunate error.

I dont believe it will.. BUT when a mistake is made.. it needs to be dealt with, not covered up in a policy that might or might not exist

 

They will happily slander the good name of a world renowned force for good (The British Police) in order to try score cheap points.

Gotta say that this is ridiculous IMO. Nobody is slandering the good name of anybody. But no one is perfect and when a mistake is made that cost the life of someone it should be investigated and dealt with and charges should be given to those involved if wrongdoing is proven

 

The police officers involved in the Stockwell shooting, in their efforts to protect the public, were prepared to come within touching distance of a man they believed to be a human bomb.

Followed him out of his house... LET him get on a bus. let him get off the bus. let him get into the subway. This does NOT sound like they were protecting any public to me

 

He is defending the rights of his officers to use firearms in order to protect the public. What you are asking for is perfection.....a police force that does not make mistakes.....absolute BS and you know it cobber!

 

I defend that right too... but when there is a mistake then it should be investigated and if wrongdoing is found, then charges should be handed out

 

On trial for what? I missed it about as much as you missed me comparing this to 'friendly fire' during war. If you and your type had your way, half the Western armies (ok, mostly American  ) would be doing 25 year stretches for assassination

On trial for killing a person without proper information, possibly without good enough reason, possibly with excessive force, possibly on not acting sooner causing this error. This mans life is as important as yours Sir T and that means the police can be found that they did wrong and if they are found to have done something wrong, they should pay a price like any other person on this planet.

Edited by hftmrock

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I've avoided posting in these threads so far but I have to point out that at the time police officers fired they were unaware that Menezes was an "innocent" person.

I agree but they had many other opportunities to do this so as not to kill him in a subway. why , If they thought he was a suicide bomber did they not stop him sooner. By waiting until he get to the subway he PUT people in jeopardy instead of protecting them like they were supposed to do

 

If all armed officers refused to carry guns then this would leave London defenseless.

 

I would never like to see that. They need more training but they need to carry weapons. That does not mean that a mistake should be swept under the rug in the name of definding the public.

 

Contrary to popular belief our yellow hi-viz jackets are not bomb proof and with only a small amount of officers actually trained to carry guns the pressure on them at the moment is immense.

 

I agree 100% and IMO that is the reason they killed this innocent man. The pressure is immense and that might lead to a itchy trigger finger... it does not however make it right

 

 

Give me hindsight and I will gladly carry a firearm.

Give me hindsight and this man is alive.

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One other thing...

 

here is one of my biggest problems with this situation

 

 

If they felt that he was a suicide bomber with strapped on explosives and was going to blow up a train then they had an obligation to the public to make sure he never go on that bus where he 'could' have killed people. the police put everyone on that bus in GRAVE danger and that should be investigated (IMO)

 

If they did not feel he was a suicide bomber with strapped on explosives and was going to blow up a train, then they had NO business shooting him at all.

 

That is my biggest problem with this but in either case, they made serious mistakes (IMO)

 

EDIT: And now some of the facts that led them to believe he was a bomber is now in question

 

Why did they allow him to board a bus, if they thought he was a bomber? Why claim he was wearing a heavy winter coat on a warm day - one sign of a potential suicide attacker - when they told his family he had only a lightweight denim jacket?

 

Why was it claimed he had vaulted the barrier at Stockwell Tube station, when it now seems he did no such thing?

 

Why don't police release the CCTV film if he was really acting suspiciously? Why allow him anywhere near the Tube anyway? Did they shout a warning? Why weren't Parliament or the public told about the new rules on shoot to kill?

 

 

LINK

Edited by hftmrock

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Ahh I don't know moon...god forbid I think I'll agree with Sir T on this one...

 

 

From all I'v read on them..the London police seem a respectable lot...firm and sometimes grumpy...but well respected by most.

 

 

I wasn't there and neither were you so I got know idea what was going through the officer who pulled the trigger there's head..would really like to hear his side tho...

 

 

Y'all are going through some very scary times there...mistakes will be made...and I hope they get it all sorted soon....

Thank you for a sensible post which sums up the situation well. There are a lot of repetitious hindsight experts here.

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Thank you for a sensible post which sums up the situation well. There are a lot of repetitious hindsight experts here.

now I would go calling people names or anything.... ;)

 

I just have a different opinion then you did... I think they put lots of people in jeopardy if there story is true about what they thought.

 

you have an opinion so do I. I respect yours... I wont call you names if ya dont call me one.

 

not hindsight to me... its trying to understand wrongs so you dont do them again.

 

I call it root cause analysis.

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I didn't actually mention your name htfm. I generalised. And if you consider my post calling people names you must be super super sensitive. My opinion of you, formed from posts on this forum, is that you are a kind, caring and compassionate person. I am genuinely sorry if you took any offence.

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I didn't actually mention your name htfm. I generalised. And if you consider my post calling people names you must be super super sensitive. My opinion of you, formed from posts on this forum, is that you are a kind, caring and compassionate person. I am genuinely sorry if you took any offence.

no worries... I jumped the gun... I did take it that way and I apologize. I have tried to show a different opinion of yours and maybe took it too personally.

 

thanks for clearing it up. You're a stand up guy! :beer: :tup:

 

Again... My mistake here.

Edited by hftmrock

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There are a lot of repetitious hindsight experts here.

You won't have to look far back in the archives to see what I think about assassination.

 

An assassination policy is wrong, legal or covert. Much as I would like to see despots taken out , such as Mugabe, or terrorist figureheads, such as bin Laden, I know in my heart that assassination is wrong. It's an immoral substitute for a moral solution.

 

I've explained why I'd like to see the men that killed Menezes prosecuted. It's not for the satisfaction of seeing them punished for an irretrievable error, it's to expose the failure of the intelligence , which led to his death, but most importantly to expose who is responsible for the 'shoot-to-kill' policy in the first place. Whoever it is, I do not want them left in positions of policy-making.

 

I believe the 'policy' is illegal and contravenes international and British domestic law. To condone the policy implies complicity with the very mindset which condones outrage against us.

The policy is prone to error, that is conclusive. It is but a hairs-breadth away from pre-emptive assassination and exposes every man-jack of the population to State-sponsored sudden death. That is fundamentally wrong.

 

It is not a mandated policy. It is a flawed remedy cobbled together by shadowy figures who deny its existence whilst refusing to rescind it , an ad hoc response to a world-wide situation which is spiraling out of control . It hasn't worked in Israel, the reputed source of the 'Kratos' policy. The war there is sixty years old and Israel's enemies have multiplied during that time. Our response to terror has been more terror when we should be offering a better way of life by example.

Our example has been shameful. Let's expose our bad leadership right away.

 

 

 

Edit;

Let me try and express my position by example;

Racists axe black teenager to death

If I'd have been an armed policeman, or even an armed civilian, I'd have killed the attacker as he raised the axe. But I wouldn't want that to be a policy. The law should help me to restrain my emotions, not allow me to give rein to them.

Edited by moon

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