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Guest fragged one

"patriot" act extension

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Pay him no mind...he's counting...you can tell because the lips are moving and the fingers are going up and down....

:lol: :beer:

 

I think I'll end it on that note and turn in for the night.

Edited by crookedwilly

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no worries chop, people flip me off all the time. mr crookedwilly has done me a great service this fine evening. nothing could delight me more than that he posted that image.

Well....OK...sure.....

 

I flip you off all the time....you just can't see me.... ;)

 

 

Can you see what I'm doing right now? :unsure:

 

 

 

 

 

;):P:lol:

 

 

Have a good night Angela...I think I am going to retire......

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I'm against the Patriot Act because it violates the constitution and established law in numerous ways. It is basically unnecessary; we have laws already in place that accomplish most of the same ends without reducing our freedoms. The Patriot Act is putting the U.S. on the road to becoming a police state. All supposedly because of terrorists. But, what is a terrorist? There is no legal definition. People are charged with terrorism for making a threat. Making a threat used to be called making a threat. Terrorists murder, commit arson, bomb things, etc.,; people have done these things for years and have been tried for murder, arson, bombing, etc. There is no need to create a new class called terrorist and use that as a reason to overstep our judicial system. We may need better intelligence and we may need more secure borders, etc., but that is not where the effort is being focused. We need better leadership and fewer chicken littles.

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very much agree. Still hope though, nothing is all that permanent. someday we may have good leadership again and such wrongs will be righted.

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very much agree. Still hope though, nothing is all that permanent. someday we may have good leadership again and such wrongs will be righted

We can only hope that based upon past performance this is true. We finally wised up to other legacies of :filtered:-poor leadership. So far no-one has reversed any of the sufferage we have worked for, so in the future when we have had enough of this nonsense we can amend it and get back to being responsible, self-guiding citizens... I predict this will take a fair amount of time and a few more disasters that make us say: "Hey, this crap we are being fed just isn't working." Something that will make us focus on good results not good process.

 

EDIT- Can't even say a slang for urine?

Edited by FrankenBox

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The problem is that the patriot act is too broad. Terrorism can be interpreted in a very broad manner. For example, I consider what Terry Nichols and the OK bombings to be a terrorist act. The war between England and N. Ireland is about terrorism too.

 

My recommendation would be to change the name to the Al Qaeda Act. It would give the government extraordinary powers to fight and defeat the war on Al Qaeda. It alwasy bothers me when we refer to the war in Iraq as the war on terror. Al Qaeda is the admitted perpetrator behind the London bombings (2 weeks ago), Madrid bombings, USS Cole, and the 9/11 bombings. They are our enemy, and we need to at the very least get them on the run.

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The problem is that the patriot act is too broad.

I disagree Rob. In my mind it is anti-democratic and unconstitutional at base.

 

I

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Guest fragged one

The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

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but upon probable cause

probable cause has a broader definition post 9/11 and it should too. you wont get your privacy invaded fragged cause your not acting suspicious and like a terrorist.

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Guest fragged one

probable cause has a broader definition post 9/11 and it should too. you wont get your privacy invaded fragged cause your not acting suspicious and like a terrorist.

that's bs and you know it. the supreme court has a pretty good defenition of probable cause. they can't even THINK about looking through my private information without probable cause and a warrant.

 

the patriot act spits on those protections.

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they can't even THINK about looking through my private information without probable cause and a warrant.

question for ya.... if we had known about muhammed atta before 9/11, did he deserve the luxury of a warrant?

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Guest fragged one

question for ya.... if we had known about muhammed atta before 9/11, did he deserve the luxury of a warrant?

was he an american citizen?

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Guest fragged one

alright damn it. mcveigh, did he deserve a warrant?

absolutely! same with nichols, same with the unabomber...EVERY american citizen.

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absolutely! same with nichols, same with the unabomber...EVERY american citizen.

so the government gets credible evidence that some loser is gonna blow up the murrah building and we should tip them off by serving them a search warrant?

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so the government gets credible evidence that some loser is gonna blow up the murrah building and we should tip them off by serving them a search warrant?

Do you know how warrants work? :huh:

 

edit: my knowledge is slim, but I think you're further off than I am.

 

edit two:

United States

 

In the U.S. the issue of federal warrants is determined under Title 18 of the US Code. The law has been restated and extended under Rule 41 of the Federal Rules of Criminal Procedure. Each state also promulgates its own laws governing the issuance of search warrants.

 

Under the Fourth Amendment to the United States Constitution, most searches by the police require a search warrant. In order to obtain one, an officer must first prove that probable cause exists, although this can be based on hearsay evidence and can even be obtained by oral testimony given over a telephone. Both property and persons can be seized under a search warrant. Under the Fourth Amendment searches must be reasonable and specific. This means that a search warrant must be specific as to the specified object to be searched for and the place to be searched. Other items, rooms, outbuildings, persons, vehicles, etc. would require a second search warrant.

 

Section 213 of the USA PATRIOT Act authorizes "sneak and peek" warrants, which permit federal agents to enter a suspect's home or office and search for and seize items without notifying the suspect.

Edited by Neo X1

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so the government gets credible evidence that some loser is gonna blow up the murrah building and we should tip them off by serving them a search warrant?

How about an arrest warrant? ;)

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did he deserve the luxury of a warrant?

If you care to protect your own civil rights: The answer is yes.

 

I

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Do you know how warrants work? :huh:

 

 

oh i know how warrants work neo. i know very well. :(

 

and i know how they would change under the patriot act as well and while i personally dont like it much i think its a necessary evil.

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Guest fragged one

oh i know how warrants work neo. i know very well. :(

 

and i know how they would change under the patriot act as well and while i personally dont like it much i think its a necessary evil.

nothing is necessary that limits our liberties. NOTHING.

 

i would rather a terrorist fly a plane straight into my head, than give up or limit any freedoms.

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