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The Iraqi Elections

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OK,

 

Just explain to me, I must be quite STUPID, How did they have anything to do with the Elections in Iraq? Maybe they Invaded them?

 

:mrgreen::mrgreen::rolleyes::lol::P

you attack me because I spoke of the Oil for Food scandal, all the while ignoring that the others are talking about the legality of the war, which has just as much to do with the Iraqi elections as the Oil For Food scandal.

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So do you disagree with the findings of the Duelfer report as well?

 

 

 

I am speaking of SUPPORTED CLAIMS. The vast majority were and have been well supported in fact.

Rather than get myself drawn into a line by line scrutinisation of the report, I'll tell you what I believe now and believed before the invasion...

 

Iraq was less of a threat to us or anyone else at the time of the invasion than it was when the ceasefire came into effect. It was a soft target that was used as some kind of macabre scapegoat in an attempt to fill a void left by certain leaders failures to get the real bad guy after 9/11. The sword of vengeance had been taken from its scabbard and it couldn't be sheathed again until it had tasted enough blood.

 

That the leaders of the colition countries believe/d that if international law didn't permit unilateral pre-emptive action without the authority of the UN, then the fault lay within international law and not them.

 

That both of the above were convenient excuses to forceably take control of the oil rich region in question.

 

Having read this post, which is in black and white, I trust you will accept it as 100% truth :)

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you attack me because I spoke of the Oil for Food scandal, all the while ignoring that the others are talking about the legality of the war, which has just as much to do with the Iraqi elections as the Oil For Food scandal.

:P

 

Tell you true, Mate,

 

I never attack someone knowingly unless I want to hurt them!

 

On a Forum, Naw, no way!

 

You are a good guy, Mate!

 

:mrgreen::mrgreen::rolleyes::lol:

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That the leaders of the colition countries believe/d that if international law didn't permit unilateral pre-emptive action without the authority of the UN, then the fault lay within international law and not them.

 

interesting take on things, though I would have to argue that Saddams failure to abide by the UN resolutions he agreed, hence the end to a cease fire and a resumption of war falls within international law.

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Of course it is the truth, it is the truth that you believe it.

 

Don't you get it?

 

No, I don't believe that Iraq was less of a threat, and I don't believe most of what you have to say on the matter.

 

 

Control of an oil rich region? The core reasoning behind nearly 100% of the politics of the US in the Middle East is oil, no doubt. But to say that the war was about control of the region is to oversimplify it to the point of demonstrating a lack of a core understanding of the extremely complex nature of the politics involved.

 

 

That 9/11 had anything to do with it is only true in as much as the US was already really ticked off in general and it was really not very smart for any nation to behave as Iraq was doing especially under those circumstances. It likely strengthened the resolve, that's all...it didn't create it.

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interesting take on things, though I would have to argue that Saddams failure to abide by the UN resolutions he agreed, hence the end to a cease fire and a resumption of war falls within international law.

Looks like we're caught in that old 'loop' again :lol:

 

My last comment on the subject of the unbiased Mr Deuflers report...

 

Duelfer concluded that Hussein was not motivated by a desire to strike the United States with banned weapons, but wanted them to enhance his image in the Middle East and to deter Iran, against which Iraq had fought a devastating eight-year war. Hussein believed that "WMD helped save the regime multiple times," the report said.

 

America don't own Iran just yet, so how was it defending itself by preventing Saddams alledged plans. Did they have their 10 year calendar upside down while drawing up their strategy? :P

 

Too many holes in the S.S. Coalition for it to float in my pond ;)

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you attack me because I spoke of the Oil for Food scandal, all the while ignoring that the others are talking about the legality of the war, which has just as much to do with the Iraqi elections as the Oil For Food scandal.

You are trying to justify a war by disproving the actions of other countries. The thing is that despite Russia; Germany and France all doing wrong, they did not invade Iraq and therfore their actions do not make the war justifiable.

 

You are doing the exact thing that conservatives slammed liberals for during the election, you are not voting for the war... you are just not voting against it :mrsgreen:

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Looks like we're caught in that old 'loop' again  :lol:

 

My last comment on the subject of the unbiased Mr Deuflers report...

 

Duelfer concluded that Hussein was not motivated by a desire to strike the United States with banned weapons, but wanted them to enhance his image in the Middle East and to deter Iran, against which Iraq had fought a devastating eight-year war. Hussein believed that "WMD helped save the regime multiple times," the report said.

 

America don't own Iran just yet, so how was it defending itself by preventing Saddams alledged plans. Did they have their 10 year calendar upside down while drawing up their strategy?  :P

 

Too many holes in the S.S. Coalition for it to float in my pond  ;)

How appropriate that once again a quote commenting about what the report said is posted rather than what the report actually said.

 

 

Thank you for driving home my point that I have made so many times.

 

 

EDIT: I just have to ask...have you read the report?

Edited by Chopdoc

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Maybe you should try re-reading the key findings in the actual report, even though it is probably as bogus as the claims made leading to the invasion, and compare my quote to the relevant sections.....they are pretty much word for word ;)

 

Thank you for driving home my point that I have made so many times.

The trouble with repeating the same stuff over and over again is that eventually, someone will start to believe it is true...

 

Al Qaeda = Saddam :rolleyes:

Saddam = WMD :rolleyes:

Duelfer Reort = Unbiased justification for invasion of Iraq :rolleyes:

 

 

:help:

 

EDIT: I just have to ask...have you read the report?

 

edit: Sorry, just saw this. I have scanned through it on a couple of occassions....not ready to sit a test on it though :P

http://www.lib.umich.edu/govdocs/duelfer.html

Edited by Sir T Fireball

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Throbbing, nagging headache SirT?...'Askit fights the miseries'...only of colds and flu's though...Hope yer feelin' better soon :beer:

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Just explain to me, I must be quite STUPID, How did they have anything to do with the Elections in Iraq? Maybe they Invaded them?

 

:P

Did Germany, France, Russia and the UN invade Iraq???

 

Sorry, I must be totally STUPID!

:mrgreen:  :mrgreen:  :rolleyes:  :P

Tell you true, Mate,

 

I never attack someone knowingly unless I want to hurt them!

 

On a Forum, Naw, no way!

 

You are a good guy, Mate!

 

Yeah, right. Your indirectly attacking Pat, trying to sound smart and sarcastic to prove your point, which is you think Pat is totally wrong and stupid. You're trying to imply that he's stupid.

 

This is a reason why I don't stay in political threads much.

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If you can aim and toss a corn bag 30 feet, you can master the game of Cornhole - It's great for family outings.

30 feet :woot: Your proctologists don't like to get their hands dirty huh! :P

 

 

Looks like the debate finally came back around to my way of thinking on the Iraqi election after all :roller:

Edited by Sir T Fireball

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Actually, I don't think that the views are as diverse as it might seem.

 

It is a mess. How much of a mess can be debated.

 

The intention can be debated.

 

The timing can be debated.

 

 

The reason the whole thing happened can be debated.

 

 

 

It is my great hope that Iraqis will be able to openly debate this and more. We shall see.

 

 

 

There were those on this site who said the elections would not, could not happen, that it was not possible and it would be put off for a couple years. We shall see.

 

 

 

 

At any rate rest, get plenty of fluids.....and be carefull of that mysterious pain...it can flare up at any time. :lol:;)

Edited by Chopdoc

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There were those on this site who said the elections would not, could not happen, that it was not possible and it would be put off for a couple years. We shall see.

Fair and open elections haven't happened yet and aren't likely to any time soon. So we were right once again. I say again, because we tend to be the same people that said you wouldn't find WMD's either....2 for 2 so far :P

 

 

 

ouch :woot:

:lol:

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I wasn't looking for WMD, I have never even been in that country....yet.

 

Besides, the WMD issue is minor.

 

 

Fair is relative...open is relative. I think that considering the circumstances the fact that it is happening at all is remarkable.

 

Relative to what has happened regarding selecting leaders there in the past few decades I would say that what will happen will be relatively fair and relatively open.

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