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Willow1

What A Woman Should Have/know

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Guest Donna

My interpretation of the origianal post that Willow made was, that part of the post was ment more to my situation than just an easy way out. I guess that was why I couldnt understand why it was said to be failure.

 

I am by no means a womans libber, burn your bra, down with men..................... But i am all for women being able to stand up and look out for themsleves. We can be strong and still be feminin. :mrgreen

 

We had a woman just post about being able to change her situation. I would hate for her to read this and then feel like she did the wrong thing. Its been 12 years for me, and there are still times when i think I should have stayed and let the kids grow up with their dad. Than give my head a shake.

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Even adultery can be worked out. It takes determination and lots of understanding, but it can happen. I've found that the best way to talk about these things is to write letters to each other, if it be just handing a letter to them, and them handing you back a reply, or leaving a letter in notepad. It's so much easier to communicate that way because you can let all your true thoughts fly. It's a very effective way to talk to each other.

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Guest Donna

That except for adultery (and even then, forgiveness is favorable to divorce), everything else should be worked out even if it means seperation and counseling for a long time. That the marriage vows are holy, not to be taken lightly, and not to be broken. I agree wholeheartedly.

Tell that to the women who have scars from there husbands beating the #%^*! out of them. Or the husbands whos wives beat them.

 

 

Sorry, but that :filtered: me off. Noone has any right to hit me and i sure as hell wouldnt incourage any one to stick around.

 

Marriage vows, say love ,honor and cherish. Where do those words play into abuse?

 

aaarrrgghh, i have to leave for awhile!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :angry::angry::angry::angry:

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I meant in a regular situation...if you'll look back, I said that I didn't mean abuse. Abuse is something that I don't think can be worked out. It was the right decision to leave, as no one should be subject to that.

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That except for adultery (and even then, forgiveness is favorable to divorce), everything else should be worked out even if it means seperation and counseling for a long time. That the marriage vows are holy, not to be taken lightly, and not to be broken. I agree wholeheartedly.

 

And does this apply to the believer \ unbeliever marriage ?

 

 

Blue

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I just have to ..........................

 

" commit adultery by remarrying " ???

 

* sounds like the catholic excommunication from church because of divorce

(though, I know of at least one couple which *paid* the *fee* and got the popes blessing ... everything has a price ? )

 

** adultery is when you are *with* another person other than your spouse, so, if you are divorced, you have no spouse nor any possible adultery ???

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Guest Donna

I meant in a regular situation...if you'll look back, I said that I didn't mean abuse. Abuse is something that I don't think can be worked out. It was the right decision to leave, as no one should be subject to that.

Jander,

 

I sent you a PM, but the pit went funcky when I hit send. You got a shorter version of the original. :) I wasnt angry with you. I understood where you were coming from, you explained yourself well.

 

Thank You. :)

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I just have to ..........................

 

" commit adultery by remarrying " ???

 

* sounds like the catholic excommunication from church because of divorce

(though, I know of at least one couple which *paid* the *fee* and got the popes blessing ...  everything has a price ? )  

 

** adultery is when you are *with* another person other than your spouse, so, if you are divorced, you have no spouse nor any possible adultery ???

Smiles :)

 

THIS POST represents my opinion and understanding of Christian theology and in no way shape or form is intended to dissuade you from your own personal belief system or understanding of the bible. It is intended to answer the question asked by mmanya and to express what is my personal opinion about certain aspects of Christianity.

 

To answer the adultery question requires taking a short tour of what I as a Christian believe. The source for Christian perspective on what constitutes adultery comes from:

 

Matthew 5

31"It has been said, 'Anyone who divorces his wife must give her a certificate of divorce.'[1] 32But I tell you that anyone who divorces his wife, except for marital unfaithfulness, causes her to become an adulteress, and anyone who marries the divorced woman commits adultery.

 

Matthew 19

8Jesus replied, "Moses permitted you to divorce your wives because your hearts were hard. But it was not this way from the beginning. 9I tell you that anyone who divorces his wife, except for marital unfaithfulness, and marries another woman commits adultery." 10The disciples said to him, "If this is the situation between a husband and wife, it is better not to marry."

 

Mark 10

10When they were in the house again, the disciples asked Jesus about this. 11He answered, "Anyone who divorces his wife and marries another woman commits adultery against her. 12And if she divorces her husband and marries another man, she commits adultery."

 

Mark 10

11He answered, "Anyone who divorces his wife and marries another woman commits adultery against her. 12And if she divorces her husband and marries another man, she commits adultery."

 

Luke 16

17It is easier for heaven and earth to disappear than for the least stroke of a pen to drop out of the Law. 18"Anyone who divorces his wife and marries another woman commits adultery, and the man who marries a divorced woman commits adultery.

The bible has rather a lot of "laws" which point out our sins to us. What people tend to do is point to these laws and happily inform us that we have sinned. This implies that we are "going to hell" because of our sin. This is called "condemnation".

 

However, it is my personal belief that condemnation belongs to someone else. Neither you nor I have that right. Judging a person based on God's laws is God's right not mans. This text is one reason why I believe this to be true:

 

John 8

1But Jesus went to the Mount of Olives. 2At dawn he appeared again in the temple courts, where all the people gathered around him, and he sat down to teach them. 3The teachers of the law and the Pharisees brought in a woman caught in adultery. They made her stand before the group 4and said to Jesus, "Teacher, this woman was caught in the act of adultery. 5In the Law Moses commanded us to stone such women. Now what do you say?" 6They were using this question as a trap, in order to have a basis for accusing him.

7But Jesus bent down and started to write on the ground with his finger. When they kept on questioning him, he straightened up and said to them, "If any one of you is without sin, let him be the first to throw a stone at her." 8Again he stooped down and wrote on the ground.

9At this, those who heard began to go away one at a time, the older ones first, until only Jesus was left, with the woman still standing there. 10Jesus straightened up and asked her, "Woman, where are they? Has no one condemned you?"

11"No one, sir," she said.

"Then neither do I condemn you," Jesus declared. "Go now and leave your life of sin."

In other words. What right do I, a sinner who should go to hell for my sins, have to condemn someone else saying, "you are a sinner your going to hell".

 

Now please don't confuse the repentant sinner with the unrepentant. A professed Christian who is also a member of a particular church who continues to sin the same sin over and over and does not repent of their sins is a special situation which the bible provides guidelines for in how the proper responsible church members are supposed to deal with such.

 

The repentant sinner is the Christian who regularly repents of their sins. One who has an honest desire to be forgiven and to not sin again. Repentance is not just admitting to sin it is the admission of sin plus the desire to allow God to change us inside so that we do not commit the same sin again. (Here we can divert to a lengthy discussion about why a supposedly repentant Christian commits the the same sin again and again... but lets NOT OK)

 

What is important to understand is that the laws found in the bible point our sins out to us. However, the "Good News" is that because of Christ's death and resurrection we are no longer condemned under the law but instead stand in judgment with Christ intervening on our behalf thus "saving us" from our sins.

 

Romans 5

 

"Peace and Joy"

 

1Therefore, since we have been justified through faith, we[1] have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ, 2through whom we have gained access by faith into this grace in which we now stand. And we[2] rejoice in the hope of the glory of God. 3Not only so, but we[3] also rejoice in our sufferings, because we know that suffering produces perseverance; 4perseverance, character; and character, hope. 5And hope does not disappoint us, because God has poured out his love into our hearts by the Holy Spirit, whom he has given us.

6You see, at just the right time, when we were still powerless, Christ died for the ungodly. 7Very rarely will anyone die for a righteous man, though for a good man someone might possibly dare to die. 8But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us.

9Since we have now been justified by his blood, how much more shall we be saved from God's wrath through him! 10For if, when we were God's enemies, we were reconciled to him through the death of his Son, how much more, having been reconciled, shall we be saved through his life! 11Not only is this so, but we also rejoice in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received reconciliation.

 

"Death Through Adam, Life Through Christ"

 

12Therefore, just as sin entered the world through one man, and death through sin, and in this way death came to all men, because all sinned-- 13for before the law was given, sin was in the world. But sin is not taken into account when there is no law. 14Nevertheless, death reigned from the time of Adam to the time of Moses, even over those who did not sin by breaking a command, as did Adam, who was a pattern of the one to come.

15But the gift is not like the trespass. For if the many died by the trespass of the one man, how much more did God's grace and the gift that came by the grace of the one man, Jesus Christ, overflow to the many! 16Again, the gift of God is not like the result of the one man's sin: The judgment followed one sin and brought condemnation, but the gift followed many trespasses and brought justification. 17For if, by the trespass of the one man, death reigned through that one man, how much more will those who receive God's abundant provision of grace and of the gift of righteousness reign in life through the one man, Jesus Christ.

18Consequently, just as the result of one trespass was condemnation for all men, so also the result of one act of righteousness was justification that brings life for all men. 19For just as through the disobedience of the one man the many were made sinners, so also through the obedience of the one man the many will be made righteous.

20The law was added so that the trespass might increase. But where sin increased, grace increased all the more, 21so that, just as sin reigned in death, so also grace might reign through righteousness to bring eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

This does not mean that Christians are free to sin and do any evil thing knowing that God's saving Grace will ultimately bring them redemption. Someone who is a Christian will have no desire to do such a thing.

 

1 John 3

5But you know that he appeared so that he might take away our sins. And in him is no sin. 6No one who lives in him keeps on sinning. No one who continues to sin has either seen him or known him.

7Dear children, do not let anyone lead you astray. He who does what is right is righteous, just as he is righteous.

The answer to your question is that from the Christian perspective it is a sin to divorce (take note of the quote from Matt 5:32) and remarry and that sin is given the name "adultery". However adultery is not a special sin. The Christian who believes and repents the sin of adultery will be forgiven. Just as they will be forgiven of all their sins.

 

There is nothing wrong will telling your Christian brother or sister, "you shouldn't do that", and explain why they shouldn't. This can be done in love without condemnation. But it is wrong to point out a "sin" to someone in such a way that you are condemning them because of their sin. It is also wrong to point out a sin to one who is not your Christian brother or sister without also pointing to salvation through Jesus Christ.

 

Have a nice day.

David

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Guest Donna

Ok, I need to apologize for my little outburst there! Swearing was not appropreate here. I am sorry.

 

Being told its gods way , not for me( or any other woman/man) to leave really really got me going. Untill you have had your head smashed into a wall or pushed down a flight of stairs when you are 6 months pregnant, almost loosing the 13 year old son I have now. You will never know the anger and pain that is felt.

 

I was not a failure, I was a winner, my children were winners. And I WAS NOT a sinner. My son will grow up knowing that hitting a woman is dispicable and My daughter will grow up knowing she doesnt have to take it.

 

 

A WOMAN SHOULD HAVE

 

 

...a feeling of control over

her destiny...

 

I have that now. :)

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Donna, if I were a woman, the first time a man got violent with me in anyway, I would leave! But as for me and my beliefs, I wouldn't rush into a divorce--that's just me. I would exhaust every other possibility first such as counseling, etc. Heck, he might even have to be institutionalized whether for mental health issues or incarcerated, but me, personally, I would wait to see if he could be rehabilitated. If he couldn't then I would get a divorce. After all, he must have some good points or I (if I were a woman) wouldn't have fallen in love to begin with, right?

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Star, although you are mostly right, I would suggest a review of Paul's letters (I can't remember the book offhand). In it, he encourages getting remarried, but he does give some guidelines. I'll look for the verse and post it later.

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EXCELLENT post, Oftentired!!!

Smiles :)

 

Well thank you. I must confess (to misuse a phrase) that I was not certain of how my thoughts would be received. Although you don't represent the majority I find myself somewhat relieved.

 

It may be helpful for all who are busy with the thread to know that there is an excellent online resource for looking things up in the bible at the Bible Gateway.

 

Have a nice day.

David

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Bravo for your post oftentired! Very well written!

 

Star, I'll look for it in the morning as my eyelids are in my lap and I have to hold them open just to see what I'm typing... :snooze:

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ya know... it sounds to me like the longer a thread runs, the less it pertains to the original post :huh: . I was under the illusion that someone was merely stating an opinion, not looking for a lecture on christianity. But I guess that's what makes this forum interesting... :unsure:

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I understand that Star. :rolleyes: My comment was about it going from someone's opinion about What A Woman Should Have/Know to a lecture on divorce and christianity. Go figure.

 

Fantasy

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Star, I was wr-I was wro....ARGH! I was wrong! The verse I was thinking of was matt 5:31

Furthermore it has been said, Whoever divorces his wife, let him give her a certificate of divorce.' But I say to you that whoever divorces his wife for any reason except sexual immorality causes her to commit adultery; and whoever marries a woman who is divorced commits adultery.

 

And this only applies to Christians...I was wrong :angry:

 

O well :mrgreen:

 

I apologise for saying that you were wrong.

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Star, I was wr-I was wro....ARGH! I was wrong!

 

I apologise for saying that you were wrong.

LOL!!! :mrgreen::mrgreen::mrgreen:

 

No need to apologize, Jander. I'm not perfect, though I think I do have a pretty good knowledge of the Bible as I used to study it diligently. Nevertheless, I'm only human and can make a mistake just like anyone else. ;)

 

You have every right to call me on something if you think I'm wrong. And I credit you for being man enough to admit your mistake. Hey, I've had to do that a couple times, at least, on here myself already. :mrgreen::mrgreen::mrgreen:

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