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Terrorists Behead American On Video

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The Army just released 400 something Iraqis from the prison and promise 300 something next week. I think with what were released last week that is close to 1000. How many people are locked up there? Why are they letting close to 1000 terrorists back out on the streets?

I dont think they were all terrorists, I think some were in the wrong place at the wrong time and some were in for petty crimes. Im not sure but I think thats how it worked.

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It seems that the New Yorker magazine is reporting that Rumfield approved the interrogation methods in Iraq. Guess it isn't just 7 soldiers after all?

approving interrogation methods and approving torture are two seperate things. Until you find something that actually says "torture" inmates I dont buy into it.

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Guest Deuces Wild

It seems that the New Yorker magazine is reporting that Rumfield approved the interrogation methods in Iraq. Guess it isn't just 7 soldiers after all?

Care to elaborate on that story and exactly how Rumsfeld defined "interrogation"? And what methods of interrogation did he approve of?

 

If the guy is guilty he has to go. I have said that since the beginning. But this has become a political football that too many people are just too happy to jump on and run with to make points for their home team.

Edited by Deuces Wild

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That is what makes democracy great! A politician screw up and the political football gets shoved down their throat. I guess he should have done his job better and had some foresight, after all that was the mission of this whole war wasn't it?

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That is what makes democracy great! A politician screw up and the political football gets shoved down their throat. I guess he should have done his job better and had some foresight, after all that was the mission of this whole war wasn't it?

If his boss had either an ounce of intelligence, a slither of integrity or a speck of foresight, he wouldn't have got the GD job in the 1st place :lol:

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It appears that the pentagon has disputed the New Yorker article about Rumfield. Pentagon Denies Rumfield The article implicating Rumfield makes it clear that Rumfield directed that physical torture in violation of the Geneva convention is authorized. If this is true I shudder to think how damaging this could be. When Rumfield and Bush were suspected of culpable negligence you could have some sympathy for them. But this is what Nuremberg was about (if true). I guess violations can still be hanged? As a conservative I am certainly in support of a prompt trial with the harshest possible punishment. I hate to think it might be against members of the US government.

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NEW YORK (CBS) Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld authorized the expansion of a secret program that encouraged physical coercion and sexual humiliation of Iraqi prisoners to obtain intelligence about the growing insurgency in Iraq, the New Yorker magazine reports

CBS Paper shredders now in overheat ....methinks , delete keys aglow

Dozens of videotapes of American guards allegedly engaged in brutal attacks on Guantanamo Bay detainees have been stored and catalogued at the camp, an investigation by The Observer has revealed.

The Observer Edited by Tankus

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BTW about Guantanimo Bay.....

 

Remember when 5 guys were released? And how some people here at the pit were skeptical of thier stories of abuse?

 

Those videos enough proof ?

 

Remember those guys were innocent, and probably had the stuffing beat out of them. God, the world is a sick place

Edited by GBPackersFan2004

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And by how corrupted our military seems to be... or at least the powers that control the military... I'm sure there are innocent people there having the stuffing beat out of them, starving at times. Who knows, maybe some have already died there, but the military probably buried the bodies and decided to not tell anyone............

 

sad part is I wouldn't doubt it :mrsgreen:

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Guest Deuces Wild

Hey folks, not all the military is corrupt. Sounds like a military bashing party to me. :blink::angry:

 

Blame the administration, blame the generals, blame the leadership, but let's not pin this whole mess on the folks in the military because of a few bad apples doing horrible things.

 

And yes, there are suspected terrorists left at Guantanamo Bay. Should we let them all go free?

Edited by Deuces Wild

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how about a trial or their day in court after two years to prove they are a terrorist? Innocent until proven guilty or do we lower ourselves to the likes of saddam and just say well you LOOK like a terrorist so go to jail, do not pass go do not collect 200 dollars and do not begin to get a chance to prove yourself one way or the other. Some would just prefer to do away with them all and not even find out what it is they supposedly have done.

 

They have released alot of these so called terrorists imprisoned in Iraq and plan to release more.. its high time to clean up the same mess in Gitmo Bay.

 

Nicholas Berg was laid to rest in a private ceremony Friday morning. My sympathies to his family and I hope they get the answers they seek in the circumstances surrounding this horrible tragedy.

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First to answer DW's comment. There are two issues in Guatanomo.

 

1. Whether the US has the right to detain these people indefinitely

2. Whether the US has the right to torture these people

 

Let's not confuse the two. #1 is being sorted out by the Supreme Court now. The answer to #2 is No.

 

But this entire issue is due to failings by our intelligence.

 

Let's just think about the problems with intelligence.

 

9/11 - Insufficient intelligence to get Rice/Bush to do precautionary measures. (Not to say it could have been stopped, but why do nothing?)

WMD - Our intelligence said they were there, and were also imminently deployable. We could not have been further from the truth.

Iraqi sentiment - Our intelligence indicated that once we took over Bagdad, the Iraqi army would lay down their arms, and the Iraqi people would welcome us with open arms. We would not be in the current predicament if we could have read better the reaction of the Iraqi people.

 

As these events unfolded, we can presume that Bush and others began to put more pressure on the intelligence organizations to perform at a higher standard. This is what is going on. I have said it before, and I will say it again. The failings of American intelligence has created this entire situation. Bush has said it himself. So has Rice. So what do they do with all of this pressure. Well, they devise new ways of collecting intelligence.

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Torture is torture. It's been done to US POWs, and it is done to those who the US captures. I think it's time for this story to die.

I don't condone it, and maybe I was once naive enough to believe that my country was better and more humane than the rest, but now, I don't believe the hype.

Berg shouldn't have gotten his head cut off, but personally to me, that would be better than being made to do it with men.

 

The dream is over, America is just as tarnished as any other country as far as torture goes. If you still believe that America is a shining beacon of righteous justice, you are either a stone Reaganaut, or one who enjoys the special nights when the family can eat roadkill. (jk)

 

So what's it gonna be? Does America decide to take care of its own domestic problems (poverty, racism, class warfare, lack of health insurance for its citizens), or does it try to follow the Bush doctrine of "dictator, policeman, and forced democracy dispenser of the world"?

Plan A sounds good to me.

Plan B will result in the future kiddies of the world (if WWIII doesn't happen) studying the ruins of the Roman, Greek, British, and Megalomerican Empires.

 

TRIM BUSH. Use shavers, hedge clippers, pruning shears, machetes - whatever! Just make sure that no chads hang this year, or I'll personally hang Chad from the nearest old oak tree.*

 

*bonus for who gets that reference. ;)

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I agree with some of that....

 

But lets get real here,,untill the major and minor political parties start putting up their best people to lead this country.. nothing much is ever going to change. ya lead from the top,,not the bottom.

 

This may be the first election I don't even vote in since I was able to vote. everyone running flat sucks....

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The dream is over, America is just as tarnished as any other country as far as torture goes. If you still believe that America is a shining beacon of righteous justice, you are either a stone Reaganaut, or one who enjoys the special nights when the family can eat roadkill. (jk)

 

 

I dunno, I dont see us torturing our own. There is still something to be said about the rights Americans have as Americans, regardless of what is being done to others. The US has many black eyes, so does every other country in the world, I would still chose the US over any other country and there is probably nothing that will ever change that.

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This may be the first election I don't even vote in since I was able to vote. everyone running flat sucks....

I would still cast a ballot, there is nothing stopping you from casting a blank one. Why ruin a good record :lol:

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This may be the first election I don't even vote in since I was able to vote. everyone running flat sucks....

Then you do what I did in the last election Volt, you use your write in vote on the ballot. Never toss away the greatest privilege our country affords us, the right to choose our elected officials and the right to show our displeasure with them with the vote.

 

Don't not vote, use the write in option to express your frustration with them if you must. Believe me they pay attention to all those third party votes and independants more then they do anyone else. They can count on the party loyal folks, it is people like you who make the difference in an election. It's you they are trying to convince, figure out, win over, it's you and the other millions of folks who are sick of the status quo they really study, and pay attention to.

 

So vote for the man or women you would like to see there by writting that name in. It may not get that person in office for you but it lets the others know you ain't happy with them. That is something they always pay attention to and it does make a difference in the long run.

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Well, they devise new ways of collecting intelligence.

I'm not too sure there is that much wrong with the way the US does it , its just the way that the information is being used politically , or spun ......

 

The ideals that the US was founded on do deserve respect , plus its accomplishments , and aid .....But its all so easily washed over by the actions of a few men ....Volts disenchantment with the voting process and choices is not just limited to the US , weave got the same problem and disgust with our elected over here too ....I think (offhand) the eligible electoral turnout was only 65% , If it drops below 50% what right does any democracy have to do anything in our name.....?

 

moon will probably pop up with his e voting thing ....but it still will not change the choice that we have ....The people that finally get to the top have greased to many poles and had their hands in too many businesses with their subsequent vested interests ......

 

I thought that the Yeh hah democratic geezer who raised all his funds via the internet was interesting , it should have given him a freer hand .....pity he blew it ......

 

How about a capped maximum electoral fund set fairly low in stages , that would allow people like nurses teachers ,utility workers etc, someone who is honest ,and fair , a chance for a run , but have also had a bit of experience in the real world , without a silver spoon in the mouth ...give them equal standing and a equal opportunity .

 

Fund by an electoral tax.

 

Our Blair is actually sitting pretty there on a minority of the wishes of the uk electorate , Its just that he had the largest portion of votes that went one way .

 

But its still got to be preferable to a dictatorship ....

 

We have elevated our political "masters" to far ......they should be reminded that they are civil servant's ...

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hmm, interesting but I will respond to one part

 

Even if a democracy has lower then 50% of eligable voters turn out it is because they have the freedom to do so, like it or not that is something to proud of. Now, determining why they dont vote is a whole nother ballgame. The problem with US elections and the cost is the sheer length of them. If they were limited to two-three months the costs would plummet.

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If they were limited to two-three months the costs would plummet

good point....you system is set up to maximise the expenditure , it also makes your government machine more ineffective as it spends a third of its time obsessed with re election ..

 

I think the aussies have to vote by law or be fined ....is this not a bad idea ..?

 

There should be a protest option in the ballot ....with a range of suggestions of why ....!

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