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moon

Terrorists Behead American On Video

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Countrydave55He also announced that further photos of US abuse victims would not be released as it would be against their human rights under the Geneva convention .......... !

 

Said it with a stright face too ....!

Who did? Rummy boy?

 

I heard that they where far worst than anything that was released before...including pictures showing s3xual intercourse and other assorted behaviour. It maybe a good reason to keep then out of the press because it might just put more western lives in danger... although I still think they should be published so that people can see for themselves and make up their own mind.

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I watched Nicholas Berg's dad on the news this morning and it seems hes not a fan of Bush, nor the war and would like some answers from the government ...

 

hmm I guess before long he will be wearing the "Liberal" title, not patriotic, a tree hugger...

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Actually Rumsfelds comments were that he would like to release them all. He had to ask lawyers what to do, they told him it would be a violation of the Geneva convention to do so. So he says he won't release them.

 

I think he would have done well to ask lawyers about the geneva convention before any of it ever happened. But then I also would have thought that the "Secretary of Defense" of The United States of America would have a clear understanding and knowledge of such important things as the geneva convention and the rules of war and the treatment of prisoners.

 

It's a sad day for the US when the Secretary of Defense claims ignorance about such things.

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Yeah ...On the channel 4 news last night

 

Why not draw a line under it ,and invite the red cross free access to all detention gulags with no constraints on public reporting ......?

 

otherwise Bush will be seen as no different than Saddam

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It's a sad day for the US when the Secretary of Defense claims ignorance about such things.

But do we really expect anything different?

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It's a sad day for the US when the Secretary of Defense claims ignorance about such things.

It was ignorance and lack of knowledge that got alot of this mess started to begin with.

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The Geneva issue with regard to the pictures appears to be that individual prisoners can be seen. It would seem to me that if they were serious about this issue they could spend some of the 25 billion on a magic marker and obscure the faces of the prisoners. I suspect that they would really prefer to not release them but I also think that they will leak.

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The geneva convention would prohibit the release of the pictures even if you crossed out their faces. It is degrading and humiliating to those who were treated this way. They know who they were and releasing the pictures would humiliate anyone who was held in detention there.

 

Article 3 [Conflicts not of an International Character]

 

In the case of armed conflict not of an international character occurring in the territory of one of the High Contracting Parties, each Party to the conflict shall be bound to apply, as a minimum, the following provisions:

 

 

1. Persons taking no active part in the hostilities, including members of armed forces who have laid down their arms and those placed hors de combat by sickness, wounds, detention, or any other cause, shall in all circumstances be treated humanely, without any adverse distinction founded on race, colour, religion or faith, sex, birth or wealth, or any other similar criteria.

 

 

To this end, the following acts are and shall remain prohibited at any time and in any place whatsoever with respect to the above-mentioned persons:

(a) violence to life and person, in particular murder of all kinds, mutilation, cruel treatment and torture;

B, taking of hostages;

© outrages upon personal dignity, in particular, humiliating and degrading treatment;

(d) the passing of sentences and the carrying out of executions without previous judgment pronounced by a regularly constituted court, affording all the judicial guarantees which are recognized as indispensable by civilized peoples.

 

 

2. The wounded, sick and shipwrecked shall be collected and cared for.

 

 

An impartial humanitarian body, such as the International Committee of the Red Cross, may offer its services to the Parties to the conflict.

 

 

The Parties to the conflict should further endeavour to bring into force, by means of special agreements, all or part of the other provisions of the present Convention.

Edited by Bruce

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Excerpts from the CIA Torture Manual

New yorker

Boston News

 

The 9/11 justification of US torture does not hold water either , when looking at what was happening in south America .

Not to sure over the top links accuracy , but it makes interesting reading (dispassionately) for an explanation over the released pictures .....

 

Looks like the administration is running out of justifications for Iraq ..

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It's a sad day for the US when the Secretary of Defense claims ignorance about such things.

I agree - I mean, I guess that's why they have advisors working for them of course. but bearing in mind the direction things have been going, I would have thought he'd have found out a little about the Geneva Convention etc.

 

I remember when the Presidential race was being fought in 2000. Bush was asked if he knew the name of the president of Pakistan. His response was "No - do you?" Pretty strange response to a fair question I thought.

 

He knows it now.

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Guest Deuces Wild

I heard that they where far worst than anything that was released before...including pictures showing s3xual intercourse and other assorted behaviour.

I heard the same, including from the Senators viewing them.

 

I hope they bring all the folks who were involved in this to justice, no matter their position in the military or administration.

 

Indeed a black eye for America. :(

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Rather a black eye than a black heart. No proven illegal treatment of prisoners by Americans comes close to the horror that the Fundamentalist filth are already guilty of.

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death by torture ......?....bit more than just frazzing or a black eye ...methinks ...moon

 

Idi Amin was a nicer geezer because his regime killed less than Pol Pot .....?

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so what do you all think of Berg, supposedly he was detained by the Iraqi police force, not the FBI/Military/CIA because of suspicous behavior. Such as wondering around Iraq unguarded at all times, carrying around anti-jewish type books (even though I thought he was a jew) and now seems to have a "coincidental" link to 9/11. The FBI also is saying they offered him safe passage out of Iraq but he refused. There is something really strange going on with this guy.

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death by torture ......?....bit more than just frazzing or a black eye ...methinks ...moon

Was that an execution or an accident ? Is there any evidence, as yet, that Americans executed a prisoner ? If the Americans did in fact execute a prisoner did they launch the video onto the world market yet or are they waiting for the Christmas rush ?

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Guest Hurdy

The investigation started after SPC Darby . . . got a CD from CPL Graner. . . . He came across pictures of naked detainees.

From the New Yorker link in T's previous post.

 

Edit : spelling

Edited by Hurdy

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One or two may be accidental , more may appear systematic....... ?

Abu Ghraib deaths

But its happening in more than one US"detention" centre , I wonder just how many people are banged up without trail in US camps ...

And exactly how many camps and where ......The Russians used to call theirs Gulags .....

Edited by Tankus

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Speaking about Iraqi deaths while in coalition custody... i'm not too sure some folks are aware that there are quite a few stories floating that the British are not the angels they try to paint themselves as. My point is that we should not focus too much on the USA but on the whole picture ( forgetting the fake photos from the mirror ) and realise that the UK forces do have some answering to do as well. As for what the B'Liar admin says about the situation over in Iraq... let's just say that I don't put much trust in any inquiry or result of any investigation that will be done given the track record of this admin in these matters.

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Guest Deuces Wild

Moon, the bottom line is that the US military should have been above torturing prisoners. We have taken ourselves down to the same level as Saddam and his henchmen.

 

Wrong is wrong, no matter what flag you carry.

 

The story about Nick Berg is turning interesting......especially since his father Michael is spending his time making it political rather than grieving for the death of his son. His father is coincidentally about as far left as Michael Moore. The son was carrying a copy of the Koran when he was detained by Iraqi Police prior to being captured and murdered even though he was a Jew.

Edited by Deuces Wild

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The Army just released 400 something Iraqis from the prison and promise 300 something next week. I think with what were released last week that is close to 1000. How many people are locked up there? Why are they letting close to 1000 terrorists back out on the streets?

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Moon, the bottom line is that the US military should have been above torturing prisoners. We have taken ourselves down to the same level as Saddam and his henchmen.

Yes, they should, but there's no use in falling apart over it. The thread is about a sense of perspective. Also, the wrongdoers would have to fall a whole lot further before they could be compared to Saddam and his henchmen. Four hundred thousand dead to date, is it ? The guilty will be punished, the political knives will flash but we've still got a job to do in Iraq. It's important to improve the moral of our troops there in the face of those who would like to undermine it.

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I'm bald. You only vote for very hairy guys. :lol:

 

Edit;

 

Wall Street Journal excerpt;

 

If we end up losing in Iraq it won't be because the American people were too soft or unwilling to stick with the President and his team when the going got tough. The public understands something the pundit and political classes have mostly forgotten: We're still in a war. Our enemies understand that too. And we trust that even the most political part of the White House understands that the bigger challenge it faces is not who wins in November but who wins in Iraq.

Edited by moon

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You see a guy beating a kid around the head with a bat. Do you...

 

1) Insist he to stops.

 

2) Stand by and watch him murder the kid as you do not have some detailed argument to use against his brutality or an alternative course of action to reccommend he take.

 

Think I'll go for #1 regardless of what certain posters think. ;)

 

9/11 was wrong, horrific, despicable etc..........but why did they do it? What was the justification in their minds? Did they have any right to be #%^*! at the west? (not #%^*! enough to justify 9/11) If some of the posters in this thread had been through what some of the Muslim folk in Iraq had been through due to the West's actions over the last 12 years, 9/11 would pale into insignificance compared to the type of revenge they would be screaming for.

That is a great hypothetical question, and you are right you have to stop it. This is the terrorist mentality behind this beheading, a bunch of their friends were being tortured and humiliated with their pictures shown on television. As a showing of strength and maintaining superiority they decide to behead a guy on video. Sounds like the achieved their purpose to me, alot of people are worried about the backlash from those prison abuse pictures now.

 

If you think that America was justified in going into Iraq in the first place then you should agree with this beheading, it is unfortunate that it happened to an American civilian and it had to be displayed violently; but I think the coalition can use it as a wakeup call and stop fighting dirty. No one likes a bully, and by some Americans pushing the Iraqi's around there was bound to be some backlash.

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