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The1PatO

Our So Called Allies...

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Well said, Volt - although I take issue with your last point

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Greeks aside

 

Just a thought ....If Kerry does get in ...which does seem to look likely from this side of the pond ...Are the US troops going to be pulled out , like the New Spanish government are going to do ...?

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He says no, not immediatly, and not without a plan, and not until the UN gets more involved.

 

With some diplomacy rather then bullying, I believe he will gain the worlds support to clean up the mess created in Iraq.

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well then hell why not go to other countries and fix them too?  Why Iraq only?  China has one of the worst human rights you can imagine.  Why not go there?

 

 

Thats it, lets duke it out at 56th & Old Cheney :roller:

 

In regards to your statement I could not agree more, we need to address every nation, by force if necessary, that harbors or is run by terrorists.

 

So there. :P

 

Angela

Go sign up grab a gun and go on your way.
Good point Bruce. I feel if you support invading countries of the world without declaring war, by all means, put your money where your mouth is. Sign up and get busy.

 

I believe the attack on Afghanistan was necessarily. Our nation's leader insisted that Osama was top priority and since he was directly linked to 9/11 I was all for finding him.

When questioned now about Osama he replies he doesn't know where he is nor does he care. Well thats real comforting I am sure the folks affected by 9/11 feel justice is served by that statement for sure.

 

I protested and will continue to protest the Iraq invasion. The American public was made to believe there were WMD and we were in immediate danger. Since the public was already terrified from 9/11 they played on that. It is not officially a war therefore they can hang out over there as long as they like. More military are dying daily to protect a place where a whole heck of a lot of them didn't even want us there. And now we have the responsibility of paying for destroying their country.

 

I want to know where Osama is... I do care whether Bush does or not that those families receive some sort of justice for their suffering. I think that should have been the top priority and focus until he was found.

So I too agree, if you feel that strongly that war is the answer in Iraq and other countries, by all means sign up and head over there yourself. It's easy to sit there and say YEAH!! WAR!!!! KILL EM ALL!!! sitting behind a computer screen. For once stop and think about what sacrifice those families are making who retrieve their loved ones in a box. Human lives are worth the sacrifice of finding non existant weapons?

 

If we attack every country that has an inhumane leader, then we are going to stay EXTREMELY BUSY for MANY years to come.

.

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I protested and will continue to protest the Iraq invasion. The American public was made to believe there were WMD and we were in immediate danger. Since the public was already terrified from 9/11 they played on that. It is not officially a war therefore they can hang out over there as long as they like. More military are dying daily to protect a place where a whole heck of a lot of them didn't even want us there. And now we have the responsibility of paying for destroying their country.

Exactly! I not only think, but KNOW George Bush peddled the American people's feelings by saying how the WMD that saddam has is a threat to us. And how he wants to prevent another 9/11. Thats not your average Joe Politician lying.... thats just disgusting.

 

And now you know why my very first vote ever (turned 18 in dec) is going to be against Bush. If hes ousted.... it'll be a memorable first vote. I can at least say "I voted against the devil and the devil lost" :yup:

 

 

:mrgreen:

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I noticed in quite a few posts that we "picked on" a smaller, weaker country (iraq). When we attaked them in the Gulf War, they were in the top 3 as far as military size in the world. Consider the size of Germany. When hitler was in power, it took the combined efforts of ALOT of different countrys to prevent him from reaching his goals. I think when it comes to armed conflict, size really DOESN'T matter.

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One of the things that made Germany harder to beat was the fact that our 'allies' ( :rolleyes: ) were a little 'reluctant' to join the party before Hitler was already on a downhill roll.

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Sir T Fireball,

 

Thats true! And then when it was done and over, everyone looked to us for aid! :blink:

Edited by cobalt1

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This will (I hope) be my only other post on ww2 in this thread....

 

Aaaaahhh the good old days. When Europe had to pay the US to join us in a war and not the other way around as it is today :lol:

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TraciLynn....that's the best post I've read in a long time concerning the Iraq conflict.... :tup: Here's to ya young lady.... :beer:

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Guest Deuces Wild

Our nation's leader insisted that Osama was top priority and since he was directly linked to 9/11 I was all for finding him.

When questioned now about Osama he replies he doesn't know where he is nor does he care.

Funny! :lol::lol: But absolutely not true. :blink:

 

Edit: The "not caring where he is part" that is. :lol:

Edited by Deuces Wild

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The BBC's Pentagon correspondent, Nick Childs, says it has long been thought that Osama Bin Laden and elements of al-Qaeda are hiding in the mountainous region separating Afghanistan and Pakistan.

BBC

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God Bless America

Posted Image

 

I love America and I'll stand behind her to the end...

 

all I can say is ....:filtered: on all you America haters..

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Guest Deuces Wild

God Bless America

Posted Image

 

I love America and I'll stand behind her to the end...

 

all I can say is ....:filtered: on all you America haters..

:lol:

 

Dave should rename the forum from General Discussions to the US and Bush bashing forum.

 

That is all I seem to read lately.

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God Bless America

Posted Image

 

I love America and I'll stand behind her to the end...

 

all I can say is ....:filtered: on all you America haters..

just who are "all you America haters" :huh::blink:

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There ya go again. Trying to drum up support by twisting the truth. Since when does not liking Bush and his policies equate to disliking the USA?

 

Personally speaking, I like Americans. Just couldn't eat a whole one :P

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God Bless America  

                  Posted Image

 

I love America and I'll stand behind her to the end...

 

all I can say is ....:filtered: on all you America haters..

just who are "all you America haters" :huh::blink:

That would be anyone who doesn't agree with or like our current administration. :rofl:

 

If you ain't lining up like little duckies behind the head quack...............................you must not be a patriot.

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Guest Deuces Wild

The arrogance and typical American naivitae displayed above is breath-taking to say the least.

This could be one, but it also could just be a US basher. Sometimes it is hard to tell them apart. ;)

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I agree, the focus should be on Osama. Too many "sales" tactics (read wmd) have been used because it was necessary to get the public on board (they thought). If they would have stuck to the idea of getting Osama or his peers, I think there would be a lot of support for it, the way it is it is a disaster.

 

As far as arm chair warriors the same can be said of the opposing view. If one really feels strongly it is easy to protest, but going there and doing something is a heck of a lot more difficult. Joining the Red Cross, Doctors without Boarders, or any number of organizations with a focus on peace, humanity, and addressing the terrible atrocities of conflict is just as hard as joining the military. But far fewer actually join those organizations than join the military, so overall the armchair quarterbacks are more prevalent among that group.

 

I think that a well stated position is important. But I also think it is important to state one's own position and not make inferences about the position of others, else it degrades to finger pointing.

 

I would love to say "sign up and get busy, join the Red Cross etc", but I know that isn't fair or practical. Not everybody is cut out to do that just as not everybody is cut out to be a soldier.

 

Any reasonable plan that I have heard for withdrawal whether from Bush or his detractors could be simply taken from the mouth of one side and put in the other and it would be the same, don't fool yourself, it will be. "not without a plan etc..." So I don't want to hear it from candidates, I don't care what they say they will do to pull us out, they hae NO IDEA until they stand in those shoes. When (if) they get in office and they are briefed and handed their first status reports they will likely begin wondering how they are going to spin the fact that they are not going to do what they said they would because the situation will not allow it.

 

What I want to hear is this: We are going to get Osama, no matter what it takes, we address harshly any country that hides or protects him and we will never stop. We will get all of his men that we can find. We have basically already said this, I just want to hear it again and clear from a candidate.

 

For an uninvolved candidate to pretend to know how to clean it up insults the inteligence of the nation. He may be able to figure it out after he gets in office, but no candidate has the information necessary to make claims to have answers on these international matters.

 

TracyLynn- Your position is well stated, your post was well done. But I am afraid you are misinterpreting or exagerating all but the most radical supporters of the opposing view. Believe me, I don't want conflict and I don't want people to die without cause, but I do support the invasion of Iraq. It never had anything to do with WMD in my view, it had to do with supporting and enforcing the provisions after the first time we fought there. We left a government there and gave them a chance to comply with the UN. They blew it. The UN squirmed when it came to enforcement, the US did not. I don't like it but I do believe it was inevitable.

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This could be one, but it also could just be a US basher. Sometimes it is hard to tell them apart. ;)

Tolerance is becoming difficult DW...Yet again... :rolleyes: ...I'd better stop reading threads that you become involved in...Why the stuck record...post after post...strikes me you do more than your fair share of bashing then pleading ignorance yourself...Just an observation thusfar :P

 

Old adage...If you can't take it...don't dish it out :woot:

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What I want to hear is this: We are going to get Osama, no matter what it takes, we address harshly any country that hides or protects him and we will never stop. We will get all of his men that we can find. We have basically already said this, I just want to hear it again and clear from a candidate.

How does a canditate making the claim above differ from one making these claims that you say they are unable to do until "they stand in those shoes"............

 

Any reasonable plan that I have heard for withdrawal whether from Bush or his detractors could be simply taken from the mouth of one side and put in the other and it would be the same, don't fool yourself, it will be. "not without a plan etc..." So I don't want to hear it from candidates, I don't care what they say they will do to pull us out, they hae NO IDEA until they stand in those shoes. When (if) they get in office and they are briefed and handed their first status reports they will likely begin wondering how they are going to spin the fact that they are not going to do what they said they would because the situation will not allow it.

I would think that promising to find Osama is as difficult a promise to keep as is finding the ideal solution to the Iraq problem.

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Personally I think one of the things that makes this country great is that we are free to "bash" the government or the President as we see fit. There are many people with very passionate views about how the US and the President have misbehaved etc. I think for the most part they have valid statements to make. Both sides do.

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Sir T Fireball

 

You are right.

 

I think if a candidate were to make those statements it would be just as difficult to keep the promise, but I believe the intent would be more honest. That is why I want to hear it. The statement does not make suppositions about anything really, so I don't think it makes the kind of suppositions that "fixing" the problems in Iraq does. It is the general intent. You see, even the current government isn't standing so strong on this point any more, they are "wishy washy" on it. All sides are saying we will pull out with a plan etc, that isn't telling me anything. Tell me very directly you are passionate about nailing Osama and it means to me that you are being a little more honest. If a candidate would say, "I don't know precisely how I will get us out but I believe that I can do it faster"....and then back that up with some demonstrated knowledge on the subject, that would be believable. The problem is the only one that can demonstrate that knowledge is the current president. Any new president will have a lot to learn "on the job" first. That is not to say that I don't think somebody else could do it better, but they would need to give me a inkling of how and why they are qualified to make such a statement. In other words, they need to back it up. None of the candidates have so far demonstrated to me that they have some better qualification or knowledge to do the job, they are just saying they can. Simply being from "the other side" in a two party system is not a qualification except to those who vote the straight ticket.

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