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The1PatO

Our So Called Allies...

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If you want to "attack the world" bad enough then money is no object.  Look at the USA, these wars in the middle east aren't free.  America is in the red so far now I'd be surprised if they ever have real money again...but does it matter?  No!  They believed that Iraq posed a threat so they are willing to spend Billions of dollars to stop them.

 

Don't kid yourself, if China wanted to start something with the US, they would.

the united state's gross domestic product is 11 trillion dollars. these billions can be reclaimed in a year, if you're proposing that the u.s. doesn't have the money for the war in iraq, well then you'd be wrong. ;)

 

 

edit: i'm gonna get some sleep, we'll have plent of time for useless bickering tommorow :P:D

Edited by The1PatO

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If you want to "attack the world" bad enough then money is no object. Look at the USA, these wars in the middle east aren't free. America is in the red so far now I'd be surprised if they ever have real money again...

Don't forget the oil were stealing!! that will help!! :rolleyes: v

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I'm not suggesting that at all, I'm simply suggesting that if almost any country wanted to start an altercation...they could.

 

Volt, I know your the linkman but I got one for you this time. Click here!

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I'm not suggesting that at all, I'm simply suggesting that if almost any country wanted to start an altercation...they could.

 

Volt, I know your the linkman but I got one for you this time. Click here!

whoa......i don't think i'm gonna say anything about this one :lol::lol:

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I'm not suggesting that at all, I'm simply suggesting that if almost any country wanted to start an altercation...they could.

 

Volt, I know your the linkman but I got one for you this time.  Click here!

whoa......i don't think i'm gonna say anything about this one :lol::lol:
I ain't either!! :mrgreen::lol: v

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G'night all...I'm sure I'll get all fired about about something else tommorow.

 

* I should probally bookmark that site.

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Jus buggin ya, at least you got a sense of humour! :lol:

Its mandatory around here ain't it?? if not it should be!! :mrgreen: good night!! :lol: v

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well then hell why not go to other countries and fix them too?  Why Iraq only?  China has one of the worst human rights you can imagine.  Why not go there?

 

 

Thats it, lets duke it out at 56th & Old Cheney :roller:

 

In regards to your statement I could not agree more, we need to address every nation, by force if necessary, that harbors or is run by terrorists.

 

So there. :P

 

Angela

:P:mrgreen:

 

Well as nice as that would be, it would seem that we wont. We are playing favorites.

 

 

As for the oil question..... hey one2gamble..... has it occured to you that if the US secretly gets their hands on oil, that they would share with us? Hell no, they'd get as much money as they can out of it... so they can keep for themselves. they are the government ya know..... they can hide/steal items if they want. Don't be so trusting as to giving the government the benefit of the doubt

but see that is just some random assumption that you came up with out of nowhere....Does it occur to you that the United States has a secret base at the bottom of the Pacific where it converts water in to gold :shifty: Edited by one2gamble

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now, the reason the US imports so much oil is because both countries have a policy of importing as much oil as they can as to exhaust other reserves before their own. This policy has been in place for some time and will continue until something replaces oil I suppose...

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If you want to "attack the world" bad enough then money is no object.  Look at the USA, these wars in the middle east aren't free.  America is in the red so far now I'd be surprised if they ever have real money again...but does it matter?  No!  They believed that Iraq posed a threat so they are willing to spend Billions of dollars to stop them.

 

Don't kid yourself, if China wanted to start something with the US, they would.

they have been in the red for decades

 

China is a real world threat, the nuclear arms blackmarket originates in China. Everyone assumes the next war will be started in Korea whereas I honestly Believe that Tawain will be the starting location of the next major war.

 

Though I do believe that China wishes to avoid conflict just as much as everyone else wants to avoid conflict with it. A hodge podge US/UN force went up against China once and took a beating. Now with extensive nuclear power around the world it is unlikely to escalate to that effect but I have no doubts it would be willing to sacrafice a large % of its population if an incident happens to occur.

Edited by one2gamble

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The US has had closer links to Al Qauda than Saddam .... (Saddam executed fundamentalists as they were a threat to his power base , he even had christians in his cabinet ..Tariq Aziz )

 

The US funded terrorism where ever it could see a befit for its own foreign policy

 

Hitler had the majority support of his electorate in Germany , which kick started world war 2 ...

 

Iraqi oil is being used to pay for the reconstruction ( by US construction firms ,) of the countrys infrastructure destroyed by over a decades worth of bombing ...... by the US and UK .

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I'd like to clarify a point that seems to get over-looked too often in these debates. The Coalition is made up of governments, not populations. If each of the individual European countries were given a referendum on the Iraq war, I'm convinced the US would probably be fighting alone.

 

Spain has not given in to terrorism. Many of us believed that the invasion would lead to an unneccesary escalation of terrorist activity. As is being proven to be the case. The fact that America hasn't sufferred any significant terrorist attack on it's homeland since 9/11 doesn't mean squatt! You weren't exactly getting many (<< that says MANY, not ANY) attacks prior to 9/11 either. The truth is, the people of Spain have been given the chance to voice their long held opinions on the invasion and have used this election to oust their puppet leader. More will follow when the common voter is given the chance to express their true feelings.

 

So please learn to differentiate when talking about 'allies' in the illegal invasion of Iraq. The only allies are the weak minded leaders who were bribed, bullied and/or cajoled into lining up alongside the great anti Moslem crusader GWB. The general population (as proven in Spain) are not and have never been in favour of this Middle Eastern farce.

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well then hell why not go to other countries and fix them too?  Why Iraq only?  China has one of the worst human rights you can imagine.  Why not go there?

 

 

Thats it, lets duke it out at 56th & Old Cheney :roller:

 

In regards to your statement I could not agree more, we need to address every nation, by force if necessary, that harbors or is run by terrorists.

 

So there. :P

 

Angela

Go sign up grab a gun and go on your way.

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I'd like to clarify a point that seems to get over-looked too often in these debates. The Coalition is made up of governments, not populations. If each of the individual European countries were given a referendum on the Iraq war, I'm convinced the US would probably be fighting alone.

 

Spain has not given in to terrorism. Many of us believed that the invasion would lead to an unneccesary escalation of terrorist activity. As is being proven to be the case. The fact that America hasn't sufferred any significant terrorist attack on it's homeland since 9/11 doesn't mean squatt! You weren't exactly getting many (<< that says MANY, not ANY) attacks prior to 9/11 either. The truth is, the people of Spain have been given the chance to voice their long held opinions on the invasion and have used this election to oust their puppet leader. More will follow when the common voter is given the chance to express their true feelings.

 

So please learn to differentiate when talking about 'allies' in the illegal invasion of Iraq. The only allies are the weak minded leaders who were bribed, bullied and/or cajoled into lining up alongside the great anti Moslem crusader GWB. The general population (as proven in Spain) are not and have never been in favour of this Middle Eastern farce.

I'm not sure about all of that. If true, then why was the election result in Spain such a surprise? The socialists had no chance of winning until the Madrid bombings and then it all turned around. Doesn't sound to me like a population voicing long held opinions. More like a knee jerk reaction to a tragic event and how it was handled.

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Guest Deuces Wild

Exactly. And the results of that election reinforced the notion for Al Quida that they can affect the politics in the world by their terrorist actions.

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How it was handled certainly seemd to be the catalyst that got the apathetic members of the population off their butts and into the polling booth. The polls leading up to the election were not showing a runaway victory for the reigning party. It took a relatively small swing to change the outcome.

 

As for long held opinions or not; this was the 1st chance the people had to voice their opinions other than the many mass rallies opposing the Iraq invasion. The media of coalition countries are spinning the election result whenever possible. Trying very hard to make it look like the great surprise it wasn't. The use of France as a scapegoat has started to dissipate. Now the coalition governments have a new whipping boy to stir up fresh irrational outbursts from the uneducated jingoists.

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At the risk of being provocative, I really don’t care if the Spaniards bug out; I just hope that they take the other minority participants in the alleged coalition with them. There are far too many spectators wafting around over there doing nothing in particular except getting in the way. While I am on my soap box, can I humbly ask that you gung-ho trigger happy Yanks stop shooting at us Brits? It’s not a ‘friendly’ thing to do at all.

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At the risk of being provocative, I really don’t care if the Spaniards bug out; I just hope that they take the other minority participants in the alleged coalition with them. There are far too many spectators wafting around over there doing nothing in particular except getting in the way. While I am on my soap box, can I humbly ask that you gung-ho trigger happy Yanks stop shooting at us Brits? It’s not a ‘friendly’ thing to do at all.

 

Couldn't have put it better myself :) :beer:

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Interesting positions. There is a grain of truth in most aspects. It had something to do with oil, but not with taking it, with the economics of it. It had something to do with WMD, but we were never there just because of that and likely would have gone without it in the first place. Violating international law? Maybe so, kind of hard to invade a country without doing that. Etc, Etc All very interesting, and oversimplifying the entire situation.

 

Regarding the original post, our allies and fair weather friends, my grandfather used to have some things to say about these things. You don't do what is right because it is easy, you don't do what is right because you might get paid or even hear a "thank you". You don't do a good deed for yourself you do it for the recipient. No good deed is left unpunished. Try to leave this world somehow better than the way you found it.

 

Yes, we sacrificed a great deal for many countries in WWII, that has never been forgotten. Go to the towns we liberated and talk to the people, visit the graves, you will find out we are not forgotten for this. But we don't do it for that, and world politics do often make it look like we should just stay out of it because we are unappreciated. Sometimes we do, sometimes we don't. The motivations for involvement are complex, but it has been a long time since Americans have spilled blood in search of territory or prizes. Greece needs the US and the UN, I don't see any reason we shouldn't help.

 

There are all sorts of things that can be questioned and should be, the economics of the clean-up in Iraq, US involvement in terrorism, many things. Questioning it is very good. Arguing over it, especially when we don't have all the facts, is just frustrating.

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how is it a loss to remove a dictator and his two worthless rape happy sons from power GB?

Ask the families of the over 500 men and women who have been killed over there. Many if not most of them AFTER President Photo-op declared the hostilities over..

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Why not add the obviously unsucessful War on Drugs, the perpetual softwood lumber dispute, the supposed Canadian Wheat Board monopoly on grain, Japanese steel imports and anything else.

 

Americans litigate on the presumption of superior cash-flow but that cash-flow is about to be interrupted. Check out China.

 

China, within the next fifty years will become the predominant cultural and economic force in global society.

 

The fact that America has failed to maturely come to terms with the policies it has taken upon itself as the arbiter of civilian life are about to come to roost.

 

Islamism is a phantom threat. After a period of restlessness, China will come to prevail.

 

I

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