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The1PatO

Our So Called Allies...

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well then hell why not go to other countries and fix them too? Why Iraq only? China has one of the worst human rights you can imagine. Why not go there?

 

Look at what happened in Madrid. Al Qaeda supposedly attacked because of Spain's support for US in Iraq. It was horrible, 300 dead, 1000 injured (rounding the numbers) These are innocent people too, not soldiers (thats not to say the soldiers are or arent innocent). We've created almost as many problems as we've solved. Yea we took out the dictator who killed his own people. Now we've got a group of rejects killing people abroad.

first of all, do you know how much it would cost to have multiple wars on the scale of iraq around the world. second, there is a population of over 1 billion people in china, and it's a communist government, they could force as many as they wanted to join the military, then they would have a great advantage over us.

 

spain was not attacked because they supported the u.s., they were attacked because they are a western democracy, and Al Queda is at a war with the west. and now that spain has let them win, it is likely there will be even more terrorist attacks to follow.

AL Qaeda has directly said that they attacked Spain because of their support in Iraq..... so i dont know why you are bringing up western democracy up, even though that is true itself

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it's the United States duty as the world's strongest power to better mankind, it's a moral obligation, there's no question about that in my mind. cpuguru, you have still not answered one2gamble's question.

 

edit:

 

AL Qaeda has directly said that they attacked Spain because of their support in Iraq..... so i dont know why you are bringing up western democracy up, even though that is true itself

and you believe what Al Qaeda says? :huh:

 

Al Qeada is, as it has shown, at a war with the west, backing down to the terrorists, as spain is now, is not going to fix the problem, it is giving them power and making the situation worse.

Edited by The1PatO

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and it's a communist government

Why is communism seen as a lesser form of government? It has no bearing on whether or not a country is run well or poorly. Sweden is one of the most socialist countries in the world and is also one of the most desirable places. I fail to see your point about Communism, it is as valid a system as socialism or capitalism.

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it's the United States duty as the world's strongest power to better mankind, it's a moral obligation, there's no question about that in my mind. cpuguru, you have still not answered one2gamble's question.

 

edit:

 

 

 

and you believe what Al Qaeda says? :huh:

No.... but it does make sense doesnt it?

 

Where exactly do you believe the statement that they attacked Spain because of their western democracy?

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maybe i should of made myself more clear. it's a tyrannical communist government, as anyone who knows something about china could tell you.

 

 

edit:

 

No.... but it does make sense doesnt it?

 

Where exactly do you believe the statement that they attacked Spain because of their western democracy?

 

yeah, it makes sense, that's why they said it. where do i believe it? they've shown that they plan to take down western society in their past actions.

Edited by The1PatO

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then why the hell is my gas still so expensive...we didnt take their oil the first time, we arent taking it now. Please provide some sort of proof before you make such random assumptions.

My gas is pretty #%^*! expensive too, and I am sitting on one of the worlds largest oil reserves too! It seems to be a cash crop per say, they export for much more then they can make domestically and continue to raise your prices to compensate for lower supply.

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then why the hell is my gas still so expensive...we didnt take their oil the first time, we arent taking it now. Please provide some sort of proof before you make such random assumptions.

Dude, where I live; Alberta, Canada we sit on some of the biggest oil reserves in the world...yet our gas is no cheaper than anywhere else. Besides the cost to fully develop Iraq's oil industries it'll cost millions of dollars and take many years...you wouldn't be seeing any prices breaks at the pumps for several years still (assuming they are taking the oil).

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maybe i should of made myself more clear. it's a tyrannical communist government, as anyone who knows something about china could tell you.

so why be allies with them as the US have obviously tried to strengthen ties between the both of them? Because of convenience? Because our economy would be screwed without their cheap labor? I thought we were supposed to fight the bad guy..... Edited by GBPackersFan2004

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so why be allies with them as the US have obviously tried to strengthen ties between the both of them? Because of convenience? Because our economy would be screwed without their cheap labor? I thought we were supposed to fight the bad guy.....

we're trying to deal with china to maintain world stability.

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we're trying to deal with china to maintain world stability.

Ah i see..... so i guess as long as the country we oppose is smaller and weaker than us.... we can have our way with them or they will be forced to go to war or something?

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no, if we were to go to war with china, the world economy would likely go nuts, people would be losing money like crazy. the cost of taking the chineese government out would be tremendous, it's an incredibly daunting task, and we've most likely looked at the options and chosen peace, hopefully we will stay on good terms, and hopefully one day they'll try to reform into a more democratic society.

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What a screwed up thread. :blink: guru can you point out were the US has taken 1 drop of oil from Iraq??

 

Last I knew we were shipping it in to feed the war machine and the local Iraqi needs.

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no, if we were to go to war with china, the world economy would likely go nuts, people would be losing money like crazy. the cost of taking the chineese government out would be tremendous, it's an incredibly daunting task, and we've most likely looked at the options and chosen peace, hopefully we will stay on good terms, and hopefully one day they'll try to reform into a more democratic society.

Thats what i mean by convenience...... so long as everything is in tact, they will remain friends. I guess you can call the policy "War mongering with common sense?"

 

Btw.... I don't see how the removal of troops in Iraq by Spain means Al Qaeda won...... Spain is just doing something that would benefit their country. I think its almost a cheap shot to say "Yea al qaeda beat spain because spain wussed out of Iraq" (using blunt terms)

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What a screwed up thread. :blink: guru can you point out were the US has taken 1 drop of oil from Iraq??

 

Last I knew we were shipping it in to feed the war machine and the local Iraqi needs.

You can't point out something that not there. But because the media doesnt go nuts sayin "BREAKING NEWS: EVIDENCE USA TOOK IRAQI OIL" doesnt mean it isnt happening. We don't know whats happening. You have to be there to know exactly. But that doesnt mean we should be quick to rule out something that does make sense

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Btw.... I don't see how the removal of troops in Iraq by Spain means Al Qaeda won...... Spain is just doing something that would benefit their country. I think its almost a cheap shot to say "Yea al qaeda beat spain because spain wussed out of Iraq" (using blunt terms)

no, al qeada won because their terms were met. instead of doing as we did after september 11th, they decided to just let the terrorists go, meaning there will be more terrorism. it won't stop until it's dealt with, some people just have to realize that.

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one2gamble doesn't think we should make assumptions...so why is this war in Iraq happening? Bush assumed their were WMD's there. Hell, he even admitted that he received bad intelligence on Iraq's situation...IMO Bush already admitted he was wrong without even saying it, but he can't stop now, he already tore Iraq apart; you can't leave the country without a government or control...so you gotta finish what you started now.

 

I can happily say I didn't support this war, sure they got Saddam and his kids out...they could have done that alot easier and with less drama since they defied the UN anyways they should have just assassinated the guy. Instead they'd rather tear apart the entire country, they ended up killing Saddam's kids anyways. Going back to Angela's anology about the molestor, why not just shoot the guy or get him out with force instead of luring him out? The point is for there to be less innocent people hurt.

 

What a $%^% mess, I don't care who started it; if it was the US then fine, if it was Iraq then that's fine also. All I know is that the US admitted to at least partially being responsible for it so now it's their job to piece Iraq back together.

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one2gamble doesn't think we should make assumptions...so why is this war in Iraq happening?  Bush assumed their were WMD's there.  Hell, he even admitted that he received bad intelligence on Iraq's situation...IMO Bush already admitted he was wrong without even saying it, but he can't stop now, he already tore Iraq apart; you can't leave the country without a government or control...so you gotta finish what you started now.

 

I can happily say I didn't support this war, sure they got Saddam and his kids out...they could have done that alot easier and with less drama since they defied the UN anyways they should have just assassinated the guy.  Instead they'd rather tear apart the entire country, they ended up killing Saddam's kids anyways.  Going back to Angela's anology about the molestor, why not just shoot the guy or get him out with force instead of luring him out?  The point is for there to be less innocent people hurt.

 

What a $%^% mess, I don't care who started it; if it was the US then fine, if it was Iraq then that's fine also.  All I know is that the US admitted to at least partially being responsible for it so now it's their job to piece Iraq back together.

we weren't basing the war in iraq on assumptions, we were basing it on intelligence that the president received, which later turned out to be faulty, we were also basing it on facts, this man has killed millions of his own people, and was obviously a threat to the world in general.

 

the reason we didn't assassinate saddam was because we can't, it was decided that it would be u.s. policy not to assassinate foreign leaders a long time ago.

Edited by The1PatO

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the reason we didn't assassinate saddam was because we can't, it was decided that it would be u.s. policy not to assassinate foreign leaders a long time ago.

 

You were violating international law and defying the wishes of many of your allies when you attacked, I don't see any difference. A crime is a crime no matter who does it and how it is done.

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the reason we didn't assassinate saddam was because we can't, it was decided that it would be u.s. policy not to assassinate foreign leaders a long time ago.

 

You were violating international law and defying the wishes of many of your allies when you attacked, I don't see any difference. A crime is a crime no matter who does it and how it is done.

nuts :mrsgreen: v

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touché, we were, in fact, violating international laws. but, only a few allies actually opposed the war. the number of allies, if counted by population, that supported the war adds up to about 1 billion people. so most of our allies were for the war. it's just that those who were against it had a louder voice.

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Funny, it's international rules that you don't start a war without firm justifacation; maybe in the past it was okay to base you military strikes on faulty intelligence. Besides I'm sure it was assumed that Saddam still has the WMD's that he was given a bunch of years ago, the faulty intelligence probally came from Bush senior.

 

How was Saddam a threat to the world? Your assuming that because of previous altercations and his domestic track record, therefore China and Cuba should also still pose very real threats to the world. As stated before, China has some of the worst human rights records in the world, yet no only does the USA not stop China...they support them. What a joke! The Chinese government poses as much of a threat to the world as Iraq did, yet the USA went after Iraq.

 

I like how the USA likes to pick and choose which rules to follow, they won't assassinate Saddam; yet they'll start a war based on bad intelligence. Great!

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touché, we were, in fact, violating international laws. but, only a few allies actually opposed the war. the number of allies, if counted by population, that supported the war adds up to about 1 billion people. so most of our allies were for the war. it's just that those who were against it had a louder voice.

The war was supported by allies when they thought the USA had good intelligence to base their actions on. Apparently they didn't, I'd like to see recent figures which support the war, I'd expect much, much lower results from when the war started.

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Funny, it's international rules that you don't start a war without firm justifacation; maybe in the past it was okay to base you military strikes on faulty intelligence. Besides I'm sure it was assumed that Saddam still has the WMD's that he was given a bunch of years ago, the faulty intelligence probally came from Bush senior.

 

How was Saddam a threat to the world? Your assuming that because of previous altercations and his domestic track record, therefore China and Cuba should also still pose very real threats to the world. As stated before, China has some of the worst human rights records in the world, yet no only does the USA not stop China...they support them. What a joke! The Chinese government poses as much of a threat to the world as Iraq did, yet the USA went after Iraq.

 

I like how the USA likes to pick and choose which rules to follow, they won't assassinate Saddam; yet they'll start a war based on bad intelligence. Great!

the intelligence received was of recent and reliable sources, so it was believed. yes, we were basing his threat to the world on his track record, and on the intelligence that suggested he could still do things like this. he still had the money to do terrible things, so he had the capability, but cuba, on the other hand, does not have the money to do much at all. china is a very delicate issue, as a war with china would be extremely difficult on the entire world. china doesn't have a record near that of saddam hussein's, either. and, the chineese government right now, is pouring in money to a project to build the world's largest dam for the yang ze(i think that's the name) river, which was started in the early nineties, and could go on to the next decade.

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If you want to "attack the world" bad enough then money is no object. Look at the USA, these wars in the middle east aren't free. America is in the red so far now I'd be surprised if they ever have real money again...but does it matter? No! They believed that Iraq posed a threat so they are willing to spend Billions of dollars to stop them.

 

Don't kid yourself, if China wanted to start something with the US, they would.

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