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ikebut

Weapons Of Mass Destruction

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Guest Deuces Wild

I like to watch the news on the big-screen TV in the main concourse at the Central Train Station of Munich. It’s enjoyable because it’s wonderful to see the Iraqi and other Muslim guest workers who do the dirty work of Germany actually cheering on the victorious American troops in Baghdad. The other day I witnessed an Iraqi man who works at one of the food stands jumping for joy because he saw on the television his home town being liberated by American troops.

 

And it’s also enjoyable to watch the news at the train station to see the pained expressions on the faces of all the locals. There it is, larger than life, thousands of Iraqis cheering American soldiers, waving Americans flags and yelling, “We love you, Mr. Bush!”

 

Sometimes the normally emotionless Germans can’t take it any longer and one will yell out “F--- Bush!.” Or perhaps a heavily tattooed and pierced girl with fluorescent Lola Rennt hair and sporting a backpack replete with peace symbols will thrust both hands in the air with the middle finger salute.

 

http://www.zcportal.com/2003/025.asp

 

Even odder is the charge, frequently voiced in Europe these days, that America is a fascist society, "a land that in over 200 years has never known a dictator, while Europe has been busy making troops of them." Indeed, Revel is very harsh on Europeans belittling America while ignoring the beam in their own eye. "And as for Europe," he writes, "let's not forget that we invented the great criminal ideologies of the 20th century, forcing the United States to intervene on our continent twice with her armies. America largely owes her unique superpower status today to Europe's mistakes."

 

The greatest danger of anti-Americanism is that it blinds many people to the world as it is, Revel avers. Thus anti-American prejudice led European leaders to denounce as stupid and misguided Ronald Reagan's 1987 demand to Mikhail Gorbachev that the Berlin Wall be torn down. But today, a decade-and-a-half later, "it is obvious - especially to citizens of the erstwhile 'satellites' of Eastern Europe - that President Reagan's policies precipitated the disintegration of the gangster regime based in Moscow."

 

Similarly, anti-Americans denounced President George W. Bush's naming of North Korea, Iraq and Iran as "an axis of evil." His numerous anti-American critics said that Bush's words were stupid, the comments of a cowboy, even though, as Revel notes, "it has been proved that the three countries he named had bought, manufactured, sold or given away weapons of mass destruction, arguably enabling terrorists to obtain them." Far from being a rash or stupid statement, Revel calls Bush's "axis of evil" speech "altogether well thought out and adapted to the new context of hyperterrorism."

 

http://www.insightmag.com/news/2004/01/06/...ed.Of.Ame.shtml

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Similarly, anti-Americans denounced President George W. Bush's naming of North Korea, Iraq and Iran as "an axis of evil." His numerous anti-American critics said that Bush's words were stupid, the comments of a cowboy, even though, as Revel notes, "it has been proved that the three countries he named had bought, manufactured, sold or given away weapons of mass destruction, arguably enabling terrorists to obtain them." Far from being a rash or stupid statement, Revel calls Bush's "axis of evil" speech "altogether well thought out and adapted to the new context of hyperterrorism."

 

I could name more than these three :lol:

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You are missing the whole point . So what if other countries have weapons?

Why shouldn't they be allowed to protect themselves ? Is the United States the only country allowed to completly obliterate others ? What made us right and others wrong ? I thought it was Al Queda and Bin Ladin we were after! What did Iraq do? It's been almost one year now and no WMD have been found , the C.I.A. has established NO links with Al Queda. So what was the purpose of going into Iraq , it wouldn't have been a personal thing , would it? We seem to pick and choose those we feel need punished for having weapons , what about N. Korea , they not only have them , they say they WILL use them . Why not go after them? Maybe it's because they are a poor country without any OIL ? If I would be another country, you had better believe that I would arm myself by any means possible, especialy if I was non Christian or non White , or had some form of wealth . Because if you didn't,you would have the threat of the United States killing your people . What gives us that right???? We have been lied to. Iraq may not be as righteous as the United States but what did they do to us ?

 

And I know those Marine quotes well , been there done that, got the scars to prove it. " One Shot One Kill " is U.S. Army (L.R.P. or LURPS ) Sniper.

 

And you forgot a couple of quotes: "War is Hell" Gen. W.T. Sherman and

"It is a good thing that war is so terrible , less we learn to like it " Gen. R.E. Lee.

 

The United States may be the most brainwashed country since Hitler's Germany.

You are completely right! In my opinion George Bush should be tried for warcrimes stemming from the attacks on Iraq without having permission from the international community. I do not care of the intentions the United States has with their weapons but as long as every other country, middle-eastern or not, is not allowed to own weapons then neither should the United States. Its either all or none.

 

The United States is not doing anything to calm the fears of Americans whatsoever. They are feeding on the fears of American to pass various laws and legislations that allow them to have more control. It is sick how the United States is able to walk into any country and demand to see their weapons cache. The second any diplomat gets with in a mile of an American's weapons stash they will be killed instantly. I do not know how the United States gained such a international reputation but it really is sick.

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Guest Deuces Wild

Hey CPU...first of all, your country did zippo to help us so I take your remarks with a grain of salt. :mrsgreen:

 

Secondly, get over the fact that the war happened and was a tremendous success. The Iraqi people appreciate what we did.

 

Lastly realize that this thing is not over yet. Just wait. WOMD will be found. There will be strong proof of Saddams ties to Al-Quida (although this has already been proved) and acts of terrorism will be reduced. We will also find Osama.

 

Your Country and your family will be safer because of what our brave fighting men and women (and those from Britain and Australia) did.

 

The constant whining from the anti war crowd is getting old. Get over it and move on already. :blink: And be thankful we are fighting the war on terror for you.

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When I read some of the posts here I have to agree with you.

prepare to be flamed lol

 

(not by me tho)

Wait till Red gets back! Now ya done it

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:rolleyes:

The constant whining from the anti war crowd is getting old. Get over it and move on already.  And be thankful we are fighting the war on terror for you.

(Deuces)

 

Come of it Deuces, we are only replying to the PRO-WAR stances and statements made by other pitters. Take this thread, was Ikebut only posting to have a good debate, show his patriotism and perhaps his voting tendencies or was he doing it just flame the PRO-WAR sentiments? :)

 

Seems that if someone speaks against war for politic's sake - and I fully believe that was what this war was all about, that PRO-WAR posters feel they should be able to have us red-carded and sent off (UK Football rules). We don't deny you guys the right to say what you think so why do you always want us to shut up?

Don't get me wrong either, if I had felt there was real reason for the war then I would have supported it. Perhaps I'm just too long in the tooth as far as politics is concerned to believe all the hogwash that has been poured down our throats by the politicians and the news media who can only seem to report sensationalism (wow that's a hard one to spell!).

 

Angela, here is a quote for you.

 

Careful dear, your paranoia is showing!

Who said it? ME :P:mrgreen:

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Hey CPU...first of all, your country did zippo to help us so I take your remarks with a grain of salt. :mrsgreen:

 

Secondly, get over the fact that the war happened and was a tremendous success. The Iraqi people appreciate what we did.

 

Lastly realize that this thing is not over yet. Just wait. WOMD will be found. There will be strong proof of Saddams ties to Al-Quida (although this has already been proved) and acts of terrorism will be reduced. We will also find Osama.

 

Your Country and your family will be safer because of what our brave fighting men and women (and those from Britain and Australia) did.

 

The constant whining from the anti war crowd is getting old. Get over it and move on already. :blink: And be thankful we are fighting the war on terror for you.

My Country will not be any safer that America and Great Britain invaded a harmless country. Sometimes it takes more guts to make a stand and not fight. I am very proud of my country for not fighting in this frivilous war. Sure we should support our allies but we do have our limits also and sacrificing our men just for some blind hope and a dream that Bush had is a #%^*! reason.

 

How is the war a success? 500 American troops dead, still no weapons of mass destruction found. The motives for this mission has been changed more then my socks and I think half the time American troops do not even know what they are fighting for anymore. It is one thing to remove a threat but now they are just guessing, probably has a dart board in the White House and they will blow the #%^*! out out that country and make up some #%^*! reason to do so.

 

Answer me this, why should the United States be the only country in the world that is able to weapons of destruction? They seem to think that it is their right and need to disarm these countries but why? How can it be justified that they are killing innocent people in showers of bombs just to eliminate a possible threat?

 

The United States is turning into a police states more every day.

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Guest Deuces Wild

I guess when I read statements like "George Bush should be tried for warcrimes stemming from the attacks on Iraq" I get torqued off. :angry:

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Hmmmm, Im not paranoid. Im very, very alert.

 

cpuguru, we dont need no ones permission, not now, not before, not tomorrow, not ever again. Think "pre-emptive strike" Again, its in all of us, kill or be killed. Period.

 

Paranoid, geesh. Where did you get that? You must have me confused with that witch Hillary Clinton and her vast right wing conspiracys..... :rolleyes:

 

Angela

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The constant whining from the anti war crowd is getting old. Get over it and move on already.  And be thankful we are fighting the war on terror for you.

In this quote you mention a war on terror, and I have heard this often used by Americans and Pro-war supporters. The ironic thing is that there was no terrorism involved by Iraq. Iraq never once attacked you or even set out to as I see it. It appears as if the war in Iraq has been grouped in with the war in Afghanistan, which was a war on terrorism. Canada supported the United States in Afghanistan and for that you should be grateful that we even sacrificed our troops to fight for you. IT WAS NOT OUR WAR, but nonetheless we still supported you and even retained control of Afghanistan for a while from you guys.

 

We fought in the war on terror, we have supported you in the war on terror completely...but this is a totally different monster. The Iraq conflict is totally unrelated from the war on terror. It just shows how far the government has the flag blinding you guys!

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Let me clear up my position on the WMD's. I dont care if we find a single one, makes no difference to me. Saddam was a terrorist and a murderer, we did what we came to do, mission accomplished.

 

Angela

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I guess when I read statements like "George Bush should be tried for warcrimes stemming from the attacks on Iraq" I get torqued off. :angry:

Now look at it from my perspective: A man and his family are eating dinner and suddenly the cops rush into his house, they murder his family and destroy the house. Then the man is taken and tortured and harrassed regarding terrorist operations. Without knowing the cops ran into his house, killed his family and stole this mans livelihood. If they found any evidence that he was a terrorist then maybe it is somewhat justified but guess what, they found no evidence.

 

That is what America did, while if they were to wait and get international permission then they would have been justified on their attack but rather they rushed it and look what they have found, NOTHING!

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Hmmmm, Im not paranoid. Im very, very alert.

 

cpuguru, we dont need no ones permission, not now, not before, not tomorrow, not ever again. Think "pre-emptive strike" Again, its in all of us, kill or be killed. Period.

 

Paranoid, geesh. Where did you get that? You must have me confused with that witch Hillary Clinton and her vast right wing conspiracys..... :rolleyes:

 

Angela

You do need permission, the United States may be the most powerful country but even the big dog has to answer to someone. The United Nations was established by the United States and quite ironically they defied their own governing body :rolleyes:

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Guest Deuces Wild

I would suggest you do some reading on the war and the UN resolutions CPU as it is obvious you have no idea what you are talking about. :mrsgreen:

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I would suggest you do some reading on the war and the UN resolutions CPU as it is obvious you have no idea what you are talking about. :mrsgreen:

Enlighten me...what do I not know about it?

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:blink:

Let me clear up my position on the WMD's. I dont care if we find a single one, makes no difference to me. Saddam was a terrorist and a murderer, we did what we came to do, mission accomplished

Angela

 

So America now decides it is the world's police force - without even asking permission it is going to go around fixing all the idiots who are abusing their positions of power?

 

Better clean up your own backyard and ours before you start on the real crusade ;):mrgreen:

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Last time I entered one of these thread's, I mentioned Germany in the 1930's and the good German citizens didn't seem to realise where they were heading . It got a bit nasty ...

But there are a lot of parallels

The Roach

The United States may be the most brainwashed country since Hitler's Germany

I think that North Korea 's up there as well....

But it is a worrying thought ....

 

Go back another 100 years and there's good old blighty hard at it too..... I think that we were a bit more honest about the profit motive though ...

 

But one thing of interest ...... If the UK government were so absolutely certain of the use of WMDS being deployed in the space of 45 mins.

 

Then why did the bulk of the UK troops sent out, had no, or little NBC protection , let alone portable detectors ....And our tanks and APC's had no microbiological air filters attached ... as used in Germany in case of a cold war biological attack .....

 

Maybe the spin didn't warrant the cost ? ....For public consumption only ...?

 

Who funded and trained the leading lights of Al quada anyway .....Saudi and the USA .... The USA probably has had closer links to Osama than Saddam ......

 

And flogging the technology in the first place...

Edited by Tankus

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Angela why not execute a "pre-emptive strike" against North Korea?...they have a known nuclear program but no oil.

I wonder that too, I think we should have been in country there a long time ago. We're getting sluggish if you ask me.

 

Im falling from grace more huh? :bawling:

 

Angela

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I wonder that too, I think we should have been in country there a long time ago. We're getting sluggish if you ask me.

 

Im falling from grace more huh? :bawling:

 

Angela

We've always taken the diplomatic course first. Saddam failed to comply with diplomacy and paid the price.

 

We must choose diplomacy first with N. Korea also.

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Guest Deuces Wild

Thats what I thought :)

Do your own research and you shall be enlightened. I am not your teacher. ;)

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I wonder that too, I think we should have been in country there a long time ago.  We're getting sluggish if you ask me.

 

Im falling from grace more huh?  :bawling:  

 

Angela

We've always taken the diplomatic course first. Saddam failed to comply with diplomacy and paid the price.

 

We must choose diplomacy first with N. Korea also.

That is where you are wrong, he did comply. It was the United States that did not comply with international law when they attacked Iraq.

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Do your own research and you shall be enlightened. I am not your teacher. ;)

I take it that this means that I was correct with my initial assumptions. This is not school, it is a debate...so debate. If I am wrong tell me I am wrong, prove that I am wrong.

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Guest Deuces Wild

:funny:

 

You have proved yourself wrong CPU.

 

And I am not debating with someone offering only speculation, opinion and mainly knowing little about the subject at hand.

 

Do some research on the war and the UN and get back with me. Maybe then we can debate. ;)

Edited by Deuces Wild

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