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El Tel

To All U. K. Smokers Your Freedom By Nick Clegg

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for the people who dont like the smoking laws...

 

 

How do you feel about drinking and driving? Driving is legal and so is drinking alchohol... but you cant drink and drive. shouldnt we be free do drink (legal) and drive (legal)?

 

If people dont like it... dont get on the road.. take the subways or walk.

 

why are there laws to stop me from doing 2 things that are 100% legal by themselves?

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I haven't seen anyone die in a bar/pub because there was smoke in the air.

 

Ya do however hear about drunks in bars killing people all the time, and people being served food they are allergic to and it kills them on the spot. ;)

 

But nope, haven't ever heard of someone dropping dead because there was smoke in the air.

 

But then you don't have to go into a place that allows smoking do you?

 

However with clear warnings at the door, you then get to make the choice of whether to enter or not. MAKE THE CHOICE

 

Caveat Emptor!

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for the people who dont like the smoking laws...

 

 

How do you feel about drinking and driving? Driving is legal and so is drinking alchohol... but you cant drink and drive. shouldnt we be free do drink (legal) and drive (legal)?

 

If people dont like it... dont get on the road.. take the subways or walk.

 

why are there laws to stop me from doing 2 things that are 100% legal by themselves?

 

can't stop people from breaking the law, only try and clean up after them.

 

However you don't have to go into an establishment that allows smoking. I do have to drive to work and the store.............

 

But I have a choice of whether I will get in the car with a drunk or whether I won't. Personally I would choose not to. Amazing how that choice stuff works ain't it?

Edited by Bruce

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I haven't seen anyone die in a bar/pub because there was smoke in the air.

 

Caveat Emptor!

 

you have never heard of people getting lung cancer that never smoked a day in their lives? or are you being specific to SEEING anyone die?

 

Second hand smoke kills and if I go to a place that allows smoking, I run the risk of dying. So I cant go just about anywhere unless I want to run that risk. Planes, trains, pubs, bowling alleys, clubs, Offices, restaurants, Museums... etc...

 

Just stay home to protect freedom or risk dying... some freedom of choice for me.

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can't stop people from breaking the law, only try and clean up after them.

 

However you don't have to go into an establishment that allows smoking. I do have to drive to work and the store.............

 

However I have a choice of whether I will get in the car with a drunk or whether I won't. Personally I would choose not to. Amazing how that choice stuff works ain't it?

 

 

you missed my point Bruce.. they are taking away my freedom.. the law takes away my freedom and should be removed immediately. I should have the freedom to drink as much as I want and drive.. the law takes that away from me...

 

My freedom of drinking (which is legal) and driving (which is legal) is being imposed upon...

 

Dont you agree that this stops freedom and I should be allowed to drink and drive legally???

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I have seen people die from all kinds of cancer and other diseases.

 

You don't have to smoke or be exposed to it to die from lung cancer. Or any kind of cancer for that matter.

 

Cancer strikes people of all ages everyday, for no good reason other then it happens.

 

Now that said.......................You do not have to go into an establishment that allows smoking. :lol: What in gods name is so difficult to understand about that.

 

It really is that simple. No one is going to drag you into a bar room kicking and screaming that you don't want to go in.

Edited by Bruce

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Now that said.......................You do not have to go into an establishment that allows smoking. :lol: What in gods name is so difficult to understand about that.

 

It really is that simple. No one is going to drag you into a bar room kicking and screaming that you don't want to go in.

 

so if that law was removed.

 

so I cant work in most places now because they allow smoking in offices and restaurants and anywhere indoors.

 

I cant go to ANY restaurants because they allow smoking

 

Cant go on subways

 

Cant go on planes

 

Cant go in supermarkets

 

Cant go to any social gatherings (pubs, bowing, arcades, clubs)

 

Cant go on busses

 

Basically I could not go to any public place indoors if I dont want to risk cancer.

 

 

Yeah.. your right Bruce.. If I dont want cancer, I can just stay home... thanks.

 

and while there are many cancers and you dont have to smoke to get it.. what is proven is you can get it if you breath in cigarette smoke.

 

 

I think I will stop at this point.. as I said before I do understand the point of freedom and smoking.. I just think its WAY too high a price to pay and in this situation (Like drinking and driving)I am in favor of the law... I dont think going back and forth like this at this point will clarify any position.

 

(and I think it is a great thread and a great discussion)

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You will have to show me where I proposed such a thing. I havn't, not once in this thread.

 

In fact just the opposite.

 

I previously said I certainly don't have a problem banning smoking in "public places".

 

Private bars and pubs are not publicly owned, nor publicly financed, they privately owned.

 

Public transportation systems, and publicly owned buildings are far different from privately owned businesses.

 

As for attending gatherings at bars and clubs, well if your friends would choose to have a gathering at a smoking establishment, I guess you would have to decide what you wanted to do, much the same way you would if a friend who smoked in his house asked you over for a party.

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El Tel

 

it would be nice to stick to the subject without ridiculing peoples opinion. you have a right to yours, they have a right to theirs. Best thing is to stick to the subject and not attack the posters.

I have amended my post immediately this was brought to my attention and I opoligise to Wigan for the comment I made.

 

Regards

El Tel

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Hi

 

I'll restore your freedom

 

you missed my point Bruce.. they are taking away my freedom.. the law takes away my freedom and should be removed immediately. I should have the freedom to drink as much as I want and drive.. the law takes that away from me...

 

My freedom of drinking (which is legal) and driving (which is legal) is being imposed upon...

 

Don't you agree that this stops freedom and I should be allowed to drink and drive legally???

 

Slightly a different thing, but too needs to be addressed. I see no reason why anybody cant drink and drive, as stated they are both legal. As for what the limit of alcohol to breath is also up for debate. Me what ever sensible level that be, that should be as a guideline.

Say the limit / guideline was 50 ppm and you don't cause and accident on your way home, then this has to be OK as no damage has been done. On the other hand should you cause an accident on your way home however minor and it is your fault, and for this argument your alcohol level was 60 ppm, the guide line was set to 50 ppm you are 10 ppm over that threshold; you loose you licence for every ppm over the threshold. Get my idea, so kiss your licence good bye for 10 years. Now that alone should be a good enough reason / deterrent whether or not to drink and drive. See I have restored your "Freedom Of Choice"

The same rule should also apply to speeding. If the guideline / limit is 30mph and you drive at 70mph without causing an accident then yet again this should be fine. If you cause a accident, then again you loose your licence for every mph over. So kiss your licence good bye for 40 years.

Now combine to two. Accident 10ppm over & 40mph over, kiss your licence good bye for 50 years. Job Done. I'm not talking about killing anybody in my examples while driving for any of the above, thats got to be a new topic.

 

Posted Image

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You go out to a pub, light up, you get fined...your freedom of choice to light up.

Nobody dies.

 

You go to a pub, light up, you and the landlord, get fined and he gets a tempoary suspension on his license to sell alcohol, you have now taken away a lot of peoples freedom of choice.

 

I guess no-body has died yet!

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Hi

 

I guess no-body has died yet!

And nobody has died in a pub, smoker or none smoker as a direct result on cigarette smoke inhalation.

 

Regards

El Tel

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Hi

 

 

And nobody has died in a pub, smoker or none smoker as a direct result on cigarette smoke inhalation.

 

Regards

El Tel

 

 

Thats a pretty sweeping assumption. Do you have any way of supporting that statement other than your personal opinion?

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Hi

 

Thats a pretty sweeping assumption. Do you have any way of supporting that statement other than your personal opinion?

If they had been, then a Non Smoker somewhere in the world; would have picked up on ( Has Anybody died, smoker or non smoker as a direct result of cigarette smoke inhalation in a pub ) and wrote their little heart out on the net and "Google Bots" trawling the net would surely have pick it up. Never mind "Brain Washing" Government bodies. All you get is comments on passive smoking and I don't believe that like I don't believe in "Global Warming"

 

Edit

 

PS

Passive smoking to me, is no more dangerous than a Priest wafting around Incense in a church.

Also smoking tobacco of some description or the burning of tobacco causing it to vapour either tasted or inhaled has been in practise as early as 5000–3000 BC

Edited by El Tel

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Wow you guys get so far off base :lol:

 

BTW what do the pub owners have to say about this?

 

I know what they say/said here in the states.

 

When the laws here took effect business dropped off so badly some were forced to close. Everybody looses!

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Hi

 

Just found this on "Smoking Tobacco" Quote "The resulting vapours are then inhaled and the active substances absorbed through the alveoli in the lungs. The active substances trigger chemical reactions in nerve endings which heightens heart rate, memory, alertness, reaction time. Dopamine and later endorphins are released, which are often associated with pleasure. As of 2000, smoking is practised by some 1.22 billion people. Men are more likely to smoke than women, however the gender gap declines with younger age. The poor are more likely to smoke than the wealthy, and people of developing countries than those of developed countries. Many smokers begin during adolescence or early adulthood. Usually during the early stages, smoking provides pleasurable sensations, serving as a source of positive reinforcement. After an individual has smoked for many years, the avoidance of withdrawal symptoms and negative reinforcement become the key motivations to continue.

Posted Image

 

Regards

El Tel

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Hi

 

If they had been, then a Non Smoker somewhere in the world; would have picked up on ( Has Anybody died, smoker or non smoker as a direct result of cigarette smoke inhalation in a pub ) and wrote their little heart out on the net and "Google Bots" trawling the net would surely have pick it up. Never mind "Brain Washing" Government bodies. All you get is comments on passive smoking and I don't believe that like I don't believe in "Global Warming"

 

 

Death due to 2nd hand smoke

 

Just google it, got several hits.

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Hi

 

As your link is dated Feb 11 2008

Death due to 2nd hand smoke

 

Just google it, got several hits.

 

Where he Said " Banning smoking could actually serve to increase business. "

 

Around us this has not been the case with hundreds of pub closing.

 

 

And this dated Oct/Nov 1999 "Smoking does not cause lung cancer" I would like to see both get their heads together and come with at least some half truths.

 

Regards

El Tel

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Hi

 

Your second link, while my heart goes out to her and her family.

And another one incase you still think passive smoking doesn't exist.....

 

Proof that 2nd hand smoke KILLS

 

 

Pneumonia was the primary cause of her daughter, caught as a child long before the effects of second hand smoke, which no doubt didn't help in later life.

 

Regards

El Tel

 

PS

And if this passive smoking is such a concern to people worried about "Bar Staff" then the proprietors should make oxygen available to all concerned staff.

 

And I won't give up on my "Freedom Of Choice" until this smoking habit kills mePosted Image

Edited by El Tel

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Hi

 

 

 

If they had been, then a Non Smoker somewhere in the world; would have picked up on ( Has Anybody died, smoker or non smoker as a direct result of cigarette smoke inhalation in a pub ) and wrote their little heart out on the net and "Google Bots" trawling the net would surely have pick it up. Never mind "Brain Washing" Government bodies. All you get is comments on passive smoking and I don't believe that like I don't believe in "Global Warming"

 

Edit

 

PS

Passive smoking to me, is no more dangerous than a Priest wafting around Incense in a church.

Also smoking tobacco of some description or the burning of tobacco causing it to vapour either tasted or inhaled has been in practise as early as 5000–3000 BC

 

 

Tobacco Facts

Tobacco is one of the strongest cancer-causing agents. Tobacco use is associated with a number of different cancers, including lung cancer, as well as with chronic lung diseases and cardiovascular diseases.

Cigarette smoking remains the leading preventable cause of death in the United States, causing an estimated 438,000 deaths - or about 1 out of every 5 - each year.

 

 

In the United States, approximately 38,000 deaths each year are caused by exposure to secondhand smoke.

 

 

Lung cancer is the leading cause of cancer death among both men and women in the United States, with 90 percent of lung cancer deaths among men and approximately 80 percent of lung cancer deaths among women attributed to smoking.

 

 

Smoking also increases the risk of many other types of cancer, including cancers of the throat, mouth, pancreas, kidney, bladder, and cervix.

 

 

People who smoke are up to six times more likely to suffer a heart attack than nonsmokers, and the risk increases with the number of cigarettes smoked. Smoking also causes most cases of chronic obstructive lung disease, which includes bronchitis and emphysema.

 

 

In 2007, approximately 19.8 percent of U.S. adults were cigarette smokers.

 

 

Twenty-three percent of high school students and 8 percent of middle school students in this country are current cigarette smokers.

(See Tobacco Statistics Snapshot for references for this information.)

 

 

http://www.cancer.gov/cancertopics/smoking

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And I won't give up on my "Freedom Of Choice" until this smoking habit kills mePosted Image

 

Good luck with that one my friend.

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You do not have to go into a bar room that allows smoking.

 

Pretty similar over here actually. You don't need to go into a pub that doesn't allow smoking. You can however stand outside until you've finished.

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