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Bruce

Why does everything have to be...........

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I don't think you fit into the category of user I was describing.

 

There are places where you can read, and study.

 

A great place to start are the very well laid out installation guides.

 

http://en.opensuse.org/INSTALL_Local

 

I know you already have it installed, but it is still the best place to start when reading.

 

Then as KRAM stated, it is a matter of learning your way around, and that installation guide brngs you to the next thing, using your desktop of choice whether KDE or Gnome.

 

http://en.opensuse.org/INSTALL_Local#What_next.3F

 

Those pdfs while not meant to be full texts of everything possible, they offer instruction on the basics of the desktop.

 

That page then has links to a few more advanced topics.

 

http://www.novell.com/documentation/opensuse110/

 

One of my favorites is Cool Solutions.

 

http://www.novell.com/coolsolutions/

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Even with reading stuff you may not get it or confuse you even more. The forum is here to help and the best knowledge on the web I found is this cat right here.

 

Posted Image

 

I have often Goggled my questions and the #1 spot in the search has Bruce in it. The Pit is very fortunate to have Bruce here.

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it's like me, i am learning howto's section to install opensuse over a network via pxe boot :mrgreen:

 

 

now the instructions appear to be in order, it also looks like i wont experience any problems except the fact that the target machine is old from year 2000......... i have a feeling pxe boot is unsupported' though it's my problem that i want to do this on a system considered these days "a relic"

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Now for the part you probably won't like tongue.gif

 

I really don't care about or give a hoot the average windows user who downloads Linux installs it, and thinks they will be getting a windows clone, or that they will have it all figured out in an hour.

 

Those folks usually don't make it through a week, of actually trying something new. Because in all reality they don't want to learn something new, they just want something for free, and when they realize that "they" are not capable of doing much more then turning it on and off, they bail, complaining it isn't "ready". lol.gif

 

The reality is, it is indeed ready. It is they who are not ready. wink.gif

I don't disagree, and I like what you're saying.

 

I would add, however, that I think migrating from the culture MS and its software solutions has created to the Linux culture (for lack of a better word) is a transition.

 

When I began to make the switch, I barely had an idea what open source was, and I was blown away with the idea that I didn't have to pay for software.

 

I guess what I'm trying to say is this: I see a little bit of myself in the posts you made earlier... but I have learned a whole lot in a variety of ways -- from asking questions here to googling to searching the ubuntu forums, etc. (So obviously, I'm not completely like the person you are describing.)

 

But I think a lot of people start just like you described, but it's not entirely their fault. It's not as if they teach classes in school about open source software and all the great benefits it can have. Instead, you get intros to MS Office and Photoshop.

 

And then, of course, are the people you describe who don't ever change and aren't willing to learn.

 

As involved as you are here in the Linux forum providing constant help and TA, I can only imagine how frustrating it must be...

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i dont think its hard to understand why someone doesnt read or try hard enough to learn to do something, its not really as simple as lazyness. If you want to really step in someone's shoes who doesnt want to learn. just ask yourself what kinds of things in life do you not want to learn and instead have someone else do it or never get it done at all?

like a roof repair on a house or engine rebuild on a car, virtually most anything can be read about on the net or in a book/manual. As i'm sure all of us have come across several things in life here and there we could learn how to do, but arnt willing.

Let's also not be hypocritical, i'm confident many of you have complained about something, someone else would deem as simple or irrelevant. its human nature i think.

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are you saying the average human being would only learn what is deemed necessary' and will not learn anymore then what's needed ?

 

sounds dysfunctional :huh:

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i dont think its hard to understand why someone doesnt read or try hard enough to learn to do something, its not really as simple as lazyness. If you want to really step in someone's shoes who doesnt want to learn. just ask yourself what kinds of things in life do you not want to learn and instead have someone else do it or never get it done at all?

like a roof repair on a house or engine rebuild on a car, virtually most anything can be read about on the net or in a book/manual. As i'm sure all of us have come across several things in life here and there we could learn how to do, but arnt willing.

Let's also not be hypocritical, i'm confident many of you have complained about something, someone else would deem as simple or irrelevant. its human nature i think.

 

 

i meant to quote 4537256

 

my bad bruce :mrgreen:

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are you saying the average human being would only learn what is deemed necessary' and will not learn anymore then what's needed ?

 

sounds dysfunctional :huh:

 

i'd be interested to see what particular sentence i typed led you to that conclusion. :blink:

i'm all for improving my writing skills so others can comprehend. Let me clarify. Are you interested in how to build a sewing machine? i'm not so why would i make attempt to learn about it? its not about lazyness as someone pointed out. that was more or less, my point.

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I don't sew. So I am not interested in learning how to build one. :lol: I have however repaired them a few times for my wife :P

 

Also tinkered with software for one that she has. ;)

 

Nice :clap:

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the thought has crossed my mind !

 

i see a sewing machine' i must find out how it works, the fact that it works compared to when it breaks would be alarming.

 

i drive my car' i must know how it works so that i can fix it' or at least prevent something from happening, example' i poured engine coolant into the oil filler "because i didn't know what i was doing" ....

 

or i don't like the way the toilet flushes, something makes me want to investigate to find a solution !

 

lifting the water reservoir, the first thing one should see is a water level mark inside the reservoir, then this starts another chain of thoughts especially noticing the current level is below the mark in the reservoir, from here' we realize their's a problem and it needs fixing, now if they searched the net or asked someone about it at home depoh' they will then be able to repair the problem by adjusting the float :rolleyes:

 

 

everything anyone does should at least cause them to wonder about, i can't use a computer and not want to know how it works, it doesn't make sense to not want to know :lol:

 

that applies to anything i do, to find that there is more to know about' only increases the desire, i would consider it norm to want more knowledge.

 

when i found out that their were more operating systems' it didn't take long for me to experience them, not because i needed them' because it was something to learn and explore.

 

the fact that i like it the os i am using now is only because i find it worth learning, it leather, not pleather :P

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opensource applications i install may not compare to proprietary', something may be wrong with how i would like it to work, this only makes me want to know more about it, maybe it's something i am overlooking, maybe all i need to do is play with settings till it works the way i want it to !

 

 

this is a way to understand what the application is capable of, to be honest' i find that they have far more potential than proprietary apps, i don't just dismiss it because it isn't what i thought it would be like......

 

everyone should normally want to explore especially when the benefit is endless

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I find it "admirable" that you and so many people "do" explore and learn.

However, there are some things that any single individual may legitimately choose not to learn about.

For instance, a home owner may prefer to contact a plumber, electrician, roofer, etc. to effect various needed repairs.

 

I for one do my own plumbing, most of my own electrical, and have replaced a roof or two.

But some may prefer to spend their time doing something else and leave the task to a "paid" professional.

The person may rationalize that their time at their work is more valuable than time spent fixing the plumbing, for instance.

 

Me, I kinda like having chores and enjoy learning about such things. Some don't. It is not the norm to want to do all the things that we could possibly list, but it is "admirable" that some such as yourself choose to be "self-reliant." I actually wish that more people were self-reliant, but it is not the norm.

 

For those of us with experience chopping wood, carrying water, growing crops, and cooking from scratch recipes, it may sometimes seem "pathetic" that other people don't know how to do such things, or do know how, but choose to refuse. But it is not necessarily "pathetic" and is actually a choice. There are doubtless things that you decide not to do (I don't know what they may be, but it could be "knit a sweater", for example) Someone else who is skilled at "knit a sweater" may wish to teach you how or encourage you to learn, and you may still not want to do so. It's a choice.

 

Now, it is an entirely different thing, IMO, when someone wants a "freebie" that requires the professional level effort of others, and expects them to be of service in providing that "freebie".

 

So I agree with Bruce and others here in being annoyed with folks who may complain about the unavailability of a specific program or utility that they "expect" others to create and make easily available as a "freebie". And I abhor it when they gripe and whine if they don't get what they want when they want it.

 

You may not agree with me on the above or on my next point, that's OK.

Here's my next point...

Open source utilities have been created by the efforts people who are every bit as talented and "professional" as those of the developers of "for fee" utilities. Open source developers "choose" to "give" without attachment. I admire that.

 

If someone "gripes and whines" that the freely giving open source professional has not yet created what the whiner wants when they want it.... Then I think the whiner is free to pay for those desired services.

 

Open source might benefit from having a complaint window.

At one of my businesses we do have a complaint window staffed by my good friend Helen Waite.

If somebody has a complaint....... they can go to HelenWaite. <--pun intended.

 

Otherwise they are free to suffer, or to pay for services.

 

Just my opinion.

 

And by the way, I am sooooo glad that there are many open source folks who do give freely of their joy and productivity. You won't catch me complaining about them. :)

You might catch me complaining about myself, and my own inability as I learn, but that's my own darn fault.

 

Best Regards

 

p.s. But then we live in the "age-of-entitlement", so my words may fall mostly on deaf ears in the general population.

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Have you tried it lately Carlton? I have and get the same results as Terry.

 

At least 4 things have changed from when the 11.1 was first released. The kernel has been updated. Xorg has been updated. There is a fglrx module in the osuse repos. And, ATI has released a new driver in Feb. 2009.

 

When "ln -s /usr/lib64/dri/fglrx_dri.so /usr/lib/dri/fglrx_dri.so" worked, it was with the original kernel, xorg, and the previous ATI driver, and, there was no fglrx module in the opensuse repos.

 

I have ranted about this before so I won't do it again since NOTHING has changed re the lazy incompetent somebodies at Novell/openSUSE re this issue!!

 

Ding, ding, ding we have a winner!

 

http://forums.pcpitstop.com/index.php?s=&a...t&p=1578700

 

Oops forgot my :lol:

Edited by KRAM

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Sorry to tell ya guys, but openSUSE, Novell do not create the drivers that are in ATI's repos.

 

ATI are lazy incompetent somebodies.

 

Nividia on the other hand is so enthusiastic that they put a driver for latest kernel days before the kernel was released. :rofl3:

 

It is difficult to understand how Novell/openSUSE can be held responsible for companies that are slow to update their repos with drivers, or like nvidia update them to quickly :lol:

 

These companies are well aware that new kernels are going to be released long before they are released, nvidia jumping the gun is evidence of that, so you can't say ATI wasn't aware of it.

 

Sorry guys but Novell/openSUSE are not the ones who create the drivers in the repos, you will have to find someone else to call lazy incompetents :P

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I can attest to that. I pm'ed Bruce asking him why I couldn't get the nVidia driver installed from the repo and if there was an kernel update I didn't know about. Turns out nVidia was ahead of the game. :lol:

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Sorry to tell ya guys, but openSUSE, Novell do not create the drivers that are in ATI's repos.

They Are responsible for Their documentation re the ATI drivers. Garbage in = garbage out = lazy incompetent wretches.

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How do you create documentation for a porrly written driver, or one that doesn't exist?

 

If you think their documentation is bad, try ATI's :P

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This just seems so strange to me, these issues that I don't have. I may have to order in an ATi card just to see whats going on here.

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They have endless useless pages and links to pages about installing the ATI driver, one click, manually, repos, etc.

 

Where is a page or a link on openSUSE.org or Novell.com that tells the plain truth about whether the ATI drivers will or will not work in plain English??

 

Don't bother looking. I'll save you the trouble. There ain't one! There should be. :P

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This just seems so strange to me, these issues that I don't have. I may have to order in an ATi card just to see whats going on here.

 

That's exactly why I bought my first one a few years ago. Some info your read is good and some is drivel. I wanted to see for myself.

 

Usually the problems were that people weren't following instuctions, including myself.

 

But sometimes the instructions are wrong. You would think that information from a major player like Novell/openSUSE would exist, be correct, and be up to date. Sadly, that's not always so.

 

There's a 1000 times more drivel out there than good info. Of all the distro's I've used oenSUSE x86_64 continues to be the least ATI friendly. I don't know why that is so, but that's been my experience so far.

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