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Video: PC v. Mac - Apples to Apples Comparison

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Well, maybe you're right, Brandon; maybe the Mac OS (not based on Classic, OS3 through OS9 WERE Classic) didn't have PREEMPTIVE multitasking, but the Mac OS did have multitasing long before Windows 95 came out, so Win95 was 10 years late with a decent graphical interface. In fact, when Win95 came out, everybody in the plant where I worked asked ME, a Mac user at the time, how to use it!

 

In all honesty, WinXP is probably the best iteration of Windows to come out of Redmond, EVER. For once the BSOD became a rarity and you didn't have to reinstall the OS every 6 months to maintain reliability. Oddly enough, nearly every feature in XP had been released and proven years before in OS9 and improved even more by the upgrade to OS X.

 

What is Vista? It is an attempt to make Windows look and perform something like OS X, more than 6 years AFTER OS X hit the market. And by everything I've read from reviewers and IT professionals alike say that Vista is a step Backwards in performance, reliability and security.

 

Yes, I own a PC running WinXP. Why? Because at the time Windows was the only way to play some of the great games on the market. But guess what? Because of the change from the PowerPC processors that manufacturers refused to improve, the Mac and OS X are now capable of playing those games, even the world's most popular MMORPG, World of Warcraft, I am replacing my Windows machine with a Leopard Mac, only installing Windows XP to run specific software (not games) not yet ported to OS X.

 

I have to hand it to you Vulpine. You are one of the few people in this thread to actually use reasoning in one of your posts.

 

As for the GUI of Windows 95 being very late, no arguing there. I always liked the UI of Classic Mac OS, but I didn't like the crap it gave me. When I bought that iMac, and started fooling around with OS9, it was like Windows 98 all over again. Stuff constantly crashing, and the like.

 

I won't be replacing any of my PCs with a Mac any time soon. I already have too much time invested in Windows/Linux to even consider a move away from them.

 

All a Mac is now, is a PC in a shiny box. "If it looks like a duck, and quacks like a duck, it must be a duck" comes to mind. You can even run OSX on PCs, illegal as it may be...

Edited by brandon

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OK, let's see some examples...

 

Back in 1987 I used an Atari ST (and later an Atari TT) for desktop publishing and music (with the embedded MIDI port and capabilites). I used Calamus SL (a fantastic piece of software that even today's InDesign CS3 can hardly beat) for DTP purposes. Back then Calamus used real outline fonts when PCs took years to adopt this font technology.

 

Circa the same era I used Amiga with the Toast card for video editing and presentation.

 

Both machines turned out to be superior (at that time) to any given PC in music, DTP and/or video. And that lasted for years...

 

The only interesting aspect of PCs back then was dBase III...

 

I don't know about benchmarks and all that numbers counted when my PCs were drawing rectangles, circles and colourful schemes on the screen, but I know very well how long it took to apply a certain filter at a certain image in Photoshop using my Quadra (back in time) and a contemporary PC. The Quadra had the job done while the PC was still in half the process! And I was using similar memory, speed, hard disc capacity systems...

 

I also know that when I replaced a CD writer on my PC I had all sorts of compatibility problems both in software (drivers) and hardware (I even got a message that certain CD media were not compatible with the specific CD writer!)... After a few drivers tests and changes it turned out there was no such incompatibility... But all these needed time, time, time...

 

A year ago, I tried my first ever replacement of a CD unit in my G5... I was amazed that there were no cables involved! I just plugged out the old CD/DVD writer and plugged in the new one!... No cables! No screws! I turned on my G5 and opened ToastIt and voila! I burned the first DVD with no drivers installation, no nothing! It just worked! And it wasn't any Apple bought DVD... Just a bulk DVD writer from the local computer store with no Apple support...

 

Exactly the same happens with any new peripheral I install to the G5 at home or at the office: no drivers, no incompatibilities, no fuss, no problems... It just works, is it a printer, an external HD, a scanner, a camera, anything... It seems that Macs don't install drivers!... I don't know how this works, but it works!

 

Just about the same happened with our network at the office... We had to do all sorts of settings on the PCs, while we just plugged in the Ethernets into the Macs and every Mac could see every other network-PC... Well, it was a bit more complicated for the PCs to do the same... Define names and masks and all sorts of things I don't understand...

 

Above all, I always remember the vast amount of PC blue screens, freezes, restarts, hung ups, anything you name... But when it comes to Macs these are counted to the fingers of my two hands during a lifetime (well, 22 years)... I can remember most of the occasions on by one!

 

Last but not least, it's my PC that consumes most of my budget since there are always software needs to be filled, like the PC Pitstop I bought from this site, the McAfee Security Suite, etc... Software that I never needed for my G5 or will ever need...

 

Like I already said "It just works!" and it gets the job done smoothly... I can rely on a Mac for all my needs... And I can hardly say the same for any of the PCs I owned...

 

P.S. Not to mention the times I re-formatted the hard drives and re-installed Windows because of problems that could not be solved in any other way!... Time, time, time...

Edited by Sixten66

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All a Mac is now, is a PC in a shiny box. "If it looks like a duck, and quacks like a duck, it must be a duck" comes to mind. You can even run OSX on PCs, illegal as it may be...

 

I have to argue that statement, Brandon. While I agree with the legality/illegality statement, before you can run OS X on a regular x86 box, you have to recompile it; you can't just slip the disk in and expect it to work. Linux users have the extended knowhow to do that recompile; very few other users have that capability.

 

Today's average user wants a computer to be easy to use, whether they are elderly, middle-aged, or young. I admit that most of the younger users, especially those that are really heavy into gaming, want the most extreme gaming hardware they can find. Strangely enough, the newest MacPro computers compare favorably with those extremes, up to and including CoreDuo Quad-processor chips and video cards to drive 2, 3 and even 4 displays, with the best single card capable of giving excellent 3D visuals. All of this capability is priced (surprisingly enough) almost the same as your high-end gaming machine.

 

It is no longer true that the Mac is more expensive, as long as you compare the two machines equivalently equipped! Yes, there are cheaper PCs, but they are minimalist at best and quickly come up to the price of a Mac to bring it up to the same capability.

 

The Mac is not just a PC in a shiny box, because the Mac is carefully engineered to provide the highest reliability for the lowest cost. My $500 Mac Mini is just as capable as any $500 PC on the market today, despite being 2 years old. Yes, it is slower; it's older after all. But I do 99% of my internet work, including graphical work, on that little $500 mini.

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OK, let's see some examples...

 

Back in 1987 I used an Atari ST (and later an Atari TT) for desktop publishing and music (with the embedded MIDI port and capabilites). I used Calamus SL (a fantastic piece of software that even today's InDesign CS3 can hardly beat) for DTP purposes. Back then Calamus used real outline fonts when PCs took years to adopt this font technology.

 

Circa the same era I used Amiga with the Toast card for video editing and presentation.

 

Both machines turned out to be superior (at that time) to any given PC in music, DTP and/or video. And that lasted for years...

 

The only interesting aspect of PCs back then was dBase III...

 

I don't know about benchmarks and all that numbers counted when my PCs were drawing rectangles, circles and colourful schemes on the screen, but I know very well how long it took to apply a certain filter at a certain image in Photoshop using my Quadra (back in time) and a contemporary PC. The Quadra had the job done while the PC was still in half the process! And I was using similar memory, speed, hard disc capacity systems...

 

I also know that when I replaced a CD writer on my PC I had all sorts of compatibility problems both in software (drivers) and hardware (I even got a message that certain CD media were not compatible with the specific CD writer!)... After a few drivers tests and changes it turned out there was no such incompatibility... But all these needed time, time, time...

 

A year ago, I tried my first ever replacement of a CD unit in my G5... I was amazed that there were no cables involved! I just plugged out the old CD/DVD writer and plugged in the new one!... No cables! No screws! I turned on my G5 and opened ToastIt and voila! I burned the first DVD with no drivers installation, no nothing! It just worked! And it wasn't any Apple bought DVD... Just a bulk DVD writer from the local computer store with no Apple support...

 

Exactly the same happens with any new peripheral I install to the G5 at home or at the office: no drivers, no incompatibilities, no fuss, no problems... It just works, is it a printer, an external HD, a scanner, a camera, anything... It seems that Macs don't install drivers!... I don't know how this works, but it works!

 

Just about the same happened with our network at the office... We had to do all sorts of settings on the PCs, while we just plugged in the Ethernets into the Macs and every Mac could see every other network-PC... Well, it was a bit more complicated for the PCs to do the same... Define names and masks and all sorts of things I don't understand...

 

Above all, I always remember the vast amount of PC blue screens, freezes, restarts, hung ups, anything you name... But when it comes to Macs these are counted to the fingers of my two hands during a lifetime (well, 22 years)... I can remember most of the occasions on by one!

 

Last but not least, it's my PC that consumes most of my budget since there are always software needs to be filled, like the PC Pitstop I bought from this site, the McAfee Security Suite, etc... Software that I never needed for my G5 or will ever need...

 

Like I already said "It just works!" and it gets the job done smoothly... I can rely on a Mac for all my needs... And I can hardly say the same for any of the PCs I owned...

 

P.S. Not to mention the times I re-formatted the hard drives and re-installed Windows because of problems that could not be solved in any other way!... Time, time, time...

 

You can do all of those things in Linux. You can run Photoshop also, albeit, under Wine. Better luck next time. ;)

 

As for a CD burner requiring drivers, uh, no... They don't. IDE devices don't need drivers.

 

Vulpine, of course Macs compare favorably when it comes to PCs in terms of price. It's because they are PCs, except the best Mac video card they have now is the X1900. No 8800 in sight.

 

Either you are ignorant Sixten66, or you are a paid shill of Apple. Nobody can type all that out, and not even mention that Windows and Linux are just as capable of doing everything Mac OSX can.

 

Sixten: You convienently left out the fact that clock speeds stagnated on the Mac too, especially when it came to the G3/G4 Powermacs. In 2001, the best they had was a 867Mhz PowerMac G4, when the Athlon was going on 1,600Mhz.

Edited by brandon

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Repeat: I don't understand techno-jargon...

Fact: The only benchmark I understand is real-life situations...

Fact: I want to run Photoshop, period. Not "run Photoshop also, albeit under Wine"... Better luck? Using a Mac I don't rely on luck!

Fact: Not me, not the average user, not everybody has the time and/or the ability and/or the will to dive into Linux (recompile?)... I just want my work done... Isn't that simple enough?

Fact: I understand Linux is a superior OS but I'm not a computer wizzard. Can I have an application that I double-click and gets the job done, please? No recompile, no techno-demanding installation... I tried to run Ubuntu 7.04... Can you, please, tell me a straight-forward way to connect to the Internet using the Sagem 840 modem? Repeat: I'm an average user, not a computer wizzard... Make it simple...

Fact: "Patin-Couffin" driver version 37 (1.37) for both my IDE devices is the driver not needed by IDE devices?... What?

Ignorant? Paid shill of Apple?... Nope!... Just want to keep my time-demanding customers satisfied. And my Mac helps... A lot!

You can keep your Athlons, clock speeds and Mhzs (I don't understand any of these, ignorant as I am), and I can keep my customers...

Enough said...

 

Greetings!

Edited by Sixten66

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No, you cannot run Mac OS X on a PC without a lot of difficulty. I actually considered trying to load OS X onto my PC, but after reading a the site which specializes in that sort of thing, quickly abandoned the thought. Not only is running OS X on a PC illegal, but it's frequently buggy and instable. The best results are had (so I am told) by custom building a machine that matches the specs of a Mac Pro or something. You can try to install OS X on your old Dell or some other PC, but (from what I read) results will be very spotty. Sometimes it'll work (except for this thing or that thing), sometimes it'll be awful. Sometimes it's so unstable that it's not practical to actually do any work on the computer—the main fun is playing with it.

 

And it isn't as if you can just download all the updates and install them like a normal Mac user can—you've got to wait for another illegal PC-OSXer to poke through the updates to make sure they're "safe" to use.

 

In summary, installing OS X on a PC is only for geeks who have the time and know-how to put all the effort required to get it to run right. Getting OS X on a PC is absolutely NOTHING like getting Windows on an Intel-based Mac. With that, all you need is a copy of Windows, either Bootcamp (which is free) or Parallels, and you're good to go. Slip in that disk, follow the directions, and it'll just work. Even grandma can do it.

 

And let's go back to the virus thing. Yes, there are proof of concept viruses that haven't gotten anywhere. The fact remains, Macs have no current viruses. Let's just deal with the facts, right NOW. No viable virus threats. I don't care if you think that it's not a big inconvenience to run your various spyware/virus programs, compared to doing nothing (which is what a Mac user does currently) it is.

 

And another thing—you can't just talk about dollars and cents, and leave out user experience. If you like Windows and are most comfortable with that, more power to you. Go with what you like. I would not talk you out of it. But realize that for most of us Mac fans, we like working with the OS. We LIKE the Mac-only apps. We get real work done on these Mac-only apps. Many of us have a PC in our homes and could use it whenever there was a need (or we simply could boot into the Windows "half" of our Mac) but we rarely find the need.

 

Telling us that we've been sold a bill of goods (the stupid crack about having a bridge to sell us) is nonsense. We KNOW how both sides live. Some of you die-hard Windows fans don't. (And no, using Macs at work or at school ten years ago does not count. Neither does using some badly maintained Macs in a school or work environment necessarily count either.)

 

We made a conscious choice. Many of us have a PC (or Windows) available to us, and we have made our choice. We like using the Mac. We didn't choose it because we drank the Kool Aid, or because we have been brainwashed into thinking it's better. We know it's better—for us. All your pie charts showing us price or speed or benchmarks does not change the fact that we do not prefer Windows, and that we get all our work done (and are happy and more comfortable doing it) on a Mac.

 

That's the part that so often does not get through. Saying something has more "value" is meaningless if the person who has to pay for the product doesn't like using it. If you like it and if you want to use it, that's fine. Don't tell someone else that they are being sold a bridge just because they don't want to use it too. And if they want to pay more for something else? Maybe they know (better than you) that it's what they want; what they feel more comfortable using. Maybe their Mac-only apps are worth it to them. Maybe they understand what's valuable to them better than you do.

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Would you even be here if the article was praising Macs, and bashing PCs elvers? Try to add something to the discussion, instead of bias & opinion.

 

The whole Windows has a bunch of viruses thing is tired and worn out. Why not make a valid comparion? Why not try Windows, Linux, and OSX for a week, and give a non-biased review? Walk a mile in my shoes for once, as a Linux/Windows/OSX/DOS user.

 

As for the OSx86, it is illegal, and you are right, however, that is just further proof that Macs are nothing but ordinary PCs now.

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Wow! Brandon you don't want to see? You don't want to understand? What?

 

The whole Windows has a bunch of viruses thing is tired and worn out.

However it is still a fact! You comprehend the meaning of the word "fact", don't you?

 

Why not try Windows, Linux, and OSX for a week, and give a non-biased review?

I already suggested that! Why repeat? I left out Linux because I don't consider it to be for the average user... I will reconsider it as soon as you help me to set up my Sagem 840 modem in Ubuntu 7.04 (or any other Linux distribution) in a really simple way... Like on a Mac!

 

Read again: "It just works!" or "It gets the job done!"... No strings attached...

 

And what is that "Macs are PCs" theory? Maybe you wish, so you can think that a PC is finally a Mac... But you're still far from truth...

 

May the force be with you...

Edited by Sixten66

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(And no, using Macs at work or at school ten years ago does not count. Neither does using some badly maintained Macs in a school or work environment necessarily count either.)

Same can be said for PC's. In fact, the bolded part really hit's the nail on the head. Whatever OS you're using, as long as it's maintained, can provide a good user experience.

 

It has been a while (10 years) since I've used a Mac. However, with Suse Linux, I've had better experience with it working with any hardware I have "out of the box" than Windows. I have 10 computers in my house running a variety of OS. I may get a Mac Mini whenever Leopard is released. Maybe...

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Who produces the majority of PC processors? Intel. Who uses Intel processors now? Apple. Who produces the motherboards used in Macs? Intel. Who does Apple contract out to to make their MacBooks? Asus, which ironically is a PC/PC parts manufacturer. Macs are PCs.

 

http://www.google.com/search?client=opera&...-8&oe=utf-8

 

Look at the first link: "Asus to make 13.3in widescreen MacBook - report | Reg Hardware"

 

If I put a Core 2 processor inside a shiny Box, installed OSx86 on it, and slapped an Apple logo on it, would you even be able to tell it's just a PC in disguise? Nope, because Macs are PCs.

 

I can comprehend the word fact, and facts are what I have been posting all along.

 

As for the issue with the modem, it's a problem on Macs too. ;)http://forums.modemhelp.net/viewtopic.php?...3dbf3343e9eb10b

 

http://forums.macrumors.com/archive/index.php/t-224652.html

 

http://forums.macosxhints.com/archive/index.php/t-70495.html

 

It requires drivers, just like Windows and Linux do.

 

Linux is for the average user. The average user that isn't a simpleton that is too afraid to venture out of their Windows/Mac shells. This is an opinion by the way. Welcome to English 101.

 

You never suggested an unbiased review of the strenghts and weaknesses of OSX/Linux/Windows. You just accused me of repeating something you never said.

Edited by brandon

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Present topic, page 8, post #73 (by me)

 

My proposal: if possible, try to live your everyday computer life with a PC for a month and then try another month with a Mac...

See? I did propose a review! You just didn't read it... But then again, it seems that there's a lot you don't want to read... Like a lot of questions you didn't (don't want to) answer... You just want to say what you want to say... Sorry about that...

Who produces the majority of PC processors? Intel. Who uses Intel processors now? Apple. Who produces the motherboards used in Macs? Intel. Who does Apple contract out to to make their MacBooks? Asus, which ironically is a PC/PC parts manufacturer. Macs are PCs.

Who produces one of the most powerful engines in Formula 1? Ferrari. Who uses Ferrari engines now? Spyker. Who designed the chassis used by Spyker? Ferrari. See? Spykers are Ferraris!!!!!! (Well, it may be that the team is at the bottom of the F1 championship, but this is another story)... Edited by Sixten66

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I want to welcome all the newcomers to this board. There is a fledgling Mac section so please stay if you like.

 

In response to all the comments, OF COURSE, I am biased. I worked at Texas Instruments in the 80's, where the TIPC was introduced. Later I went to work at Gateway, and I left as the SVP of Consumer, and then I started up PC Pitstop.

 

The reason that I made the video was that although the Apple commercials have an element of truth, they are also very biased. I wanted to tell the other side of the story since the vast majority of users are Windows users anyhow.

 

The fact that far more virus and spyware exist for PC's is a function of its success. If I were a spyware or virus writer, I would write for Windows. It really has nothing to do with whether one platform is more secure than another.

 

The key points that I made are all still valid. PC's are a substantially better value than Macs. Since the hardware is all essentially the same, and hence Apple's Cost of Good Sold, one can only conclude that Apple's gross margins are higher than the industry. Apple's efficiency to market is also worse than the their PC competitors, and this in the long run will impact their ultimate market share.

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Gotta go with the Cheng man here. It's obvious that you are bised sixten, cheng is biased, and I am biased towards Linux. The arguments will never come to a conclusion, so let's all agree to disagree.

 

As for the marketshare bit, Rob, that is bull. Apache runs 64% of the internet, yet most of the internet server viruses/attacks are focused on IIS, which is far less secure. Granted, this is for older versions, but I doubt too many people are in a rush to upgrade their web server software. I've seen servers running Apache 1.33, when Apache is at version 2.0+.

 

Linux and Mac OSX both have million of users, so attacking either one would net you positive results. It's just that Linux and OSX are far more secure than Windows.

 

If it looks like a duck, quacks like a duck, then it is a duck. Macs may have the Apple name & Mac branding, but if you look past that, they are run of the mill PCs, underperforming PCs at that.

Edited by brandon

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I consider myself an average computer user. I am not a crazy technical person and I lack any programming skills. For me the bottom line is: software availability. I am not bashing Apple or their product and some of the more technical stuff people have mentioned mean nothing to me. :h3lp: I am a Windows person strictly because I have many more software options.

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It has always been my opinion for the longest time that the biggest threat to security are the users themselves. I personally do not run any anti virus nor anti spyware. Never have and never will. The reason is that I take great care of what could be installed on my computer. No matter how secure you make the operating system, it cannot prohibit an inept user from doing something inadvertently harmful.

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:boxing:

 

Ok folks, it's now ROUND 1 MILLION! Looks like Apple is beginning to get tired and the PC crowd is starting to smell blood. The fans are screaming for a K.O. to put this match at an end.

 

Will this debate ever end? :blink:

 

IMHO ... I have to agree with brandon on this one. I mean, what does the "average" computer user see when he/she walks into a retail store nowadays? You can sure bet (more often than not) it ain't Apple software! So it should be easy for anyone to understand why Windows based machines are prone to errors when you have every Tom, Richard and Harry writing software for that particular OS, along with all the mistakes, glitches and errors that come from rushing their packages to market for profit's sake. In fact, I would wager that 90% of the PC games that hit our shelves are almost always followed up by some sort of patch or fix to address issues that "got in the way" of original production deadlines. The exception to this rule of error prone programming would be the more expensive programs like Photoshop, etc., which both parties can share accordingly.

 

So my point is simple, if you were to use nothing but Microsoft software on your Microsoft PC, you wouldn't have all the "errors" that Mac users like to make fun of. So Apple/Mac users have nothing to boast about when they don't have even a fraction of the competition trying to write software for their OS. If they did, I truly would love to see them eat their blowhard attitudes. B)

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What, praytell, did you agree with me on that I have posted in this thread? I've made quite a few posts in this thread, and I love it when people agree with me. :P

Edited by brandon

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What, praytell, did you agree with me on that I have posted in this thread? I've made quite a few posts in this thread, and I love it when people agree with me. :P

 

Sorry brandon, I should have clarified my post more carefully. I was agreeing with your argument on the use of a PC over the Mac in that last post of yours, not about Linux vs Windows.

 

I don't really use Linux a whole lot because of support issues in the past and the fact that I do a lot of gaming. I tried out Ubuntu last week and was impressed, but again, there are too many issues to overcome when you look at the software available to Windows on the store shelves. The same can be said for my clients when I try to introduce them to new ideas like Ubuntu. (And yes, I realize there are more versions of Linux than just Ubuntu)

The sad fact is ... most people are brainwashed into thinking Windows = a PC, in much the same way as Intel when they play that little "jingle" at the end of every commercial on TV.

 

Actually, the way Ubuntu had everything (web browser, email/instant messaging program, word processor, etc.) wrapped up into one single OS, it sort of felt like I was operating a Mac.

 

No offense intended! :surrender:

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Why would I be offended? I see no reason to be.

 

Also, someone agreeing with me, even if it is for only one thing is good enough for me. I consider it a win.

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:boxing:

 

So my point is simple, if you were to use nothing but Microsoft software on your Microsoft PC, you wouldn't have all the "errors" that Mac users like to make fun of. So Apple/Mac users have nothing to boast about when they don't have even a fraction of the competition trying to write software for their OS. If they did, I truly would love to see them eat their blowhard attitudes. B)

 

Really?? So when Vista first came out and I had nothing but Microsoft software on the computer, and I got errors and a BSOD it was because of Tom Richard and Harry? :lol: Funny for some strange reason I assumed it was because of the "Microsoft" software and OS :P

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Would you even be here if the article was praising Macs, and bashing PCs elvers?

Well, what do you expect? Some sort of "preaching to the choir Macs suck" party? Of course you're going to get a variety of opinions. This is a message board. It attracts people who want to express variety of opinions.

Try to add something to the discussion, instead of bias & opinion.

You're kidding, right? What are your posts but bias and opinion? What are anyone's posts but bias and opinion? At least I did bring out facts: Like the fact that running OS X on a Mac is not an easy experience, and not one to be undertaken by the average user. You never mentioned this in your oft-repeated mantras about "shiny box" (quite enamoured with that ;)) and how PCs can run OS X. You continue to gloss over the fact that it's difficult to get OS X on a PC, and often unstable. Certainly it's not something for the average computer user.

 

The whole Windows has a bunch of viruses thing is tired and worn out. Why not make a valid comparion? Why not try Windows, Linux, and OSX for a week, and give a non-biased review? Walk a mile in my shoes for once, as a Linux/Windows/OSX/DOS user.

I'm eager to jump on the Linux bandwagon so I'll get back to you on that. I'm already well familiar with Windows—I maintain a Windows box with Windows XP. Take that back—I have several Windows machines. And I have Windows on my Intel Mac.

 

I have not said that I think Windows is horrible. It's not. I am very familiar with it (having used it before I used a Mac). But I still prefer Mac OS X. And the whole stupid line about "we've got a bridge for you" seems particularly inane to me, since I am more than familiar with Windows and all its quirks. I use it now and then but spend most of my time in Mac. Because I prefer it. It does not work to tell me that a Windows-based PC is more "value" since I don't want to use Windows exclusively. I am very familiar with my options (Mac vs. PC). My choice is not based on ignorance.

 

As for the OSx86, it is illegal, and you are right, however, that is just further proof that Macs are nothing but ordinary PCs now.

 

Except that you have to jump through extraordinary hoops to get Mac OS X to run on an "ordinary" PC, whereas you don't with a Mac.

 

But it's mostly about the OS, and we prefer the Mac OS. And having lived on both sides (Mac and PC) we are saying that the dearth of software isn't as dire as some of you claim. Unless you're a hardcore gamer. If you're a hardcore gamer, get whatever tricked-out PC you want—or a Mac—whatever you want. But for average stuff? What am I missing out on? What am I missing out on? Photoshop? Nope. Indesign? Nope. Final Cut Pro? Nope. Oh wait . . . ;) I am missing out on a lot of cheap, redundant software, that is true. But when I feel I am missing out on something, I boot up the PC. I don't feel the need to boot up the PC all that often (and when I do, the Mac is able to do it). A lot of Mac users can echo my experience. We aren't being sold a bill of goods. We are aware of what's out there and are acutely aware of what we're "missing" out on. And we are also very well aware of what things cost. And we still say that we prefer a Mac.

 

What bridge am I buying? I don't deal with viruses, I don't have to go to any lengths or put any thought into avoiding viruses, I don't miss out on much software (in my experience, which is all that counts since I'm the one laying down the bucks for any computer I use), and I have a user experience with Mac OS X that I prefer.

Edited by elvers

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Same can be said for PC's. In fact, the bolded part really hit's the nail on the head. Whatever OS you're using, as long as it's maintained, can provide a good user experience.

That may be true. In the past it seemed like it took a lot less for a PC to be not "well maintained" than a Mac, but maybe that's just my perception.

 

But then you also have to take into account that some of us have used both Mac and PC, and presumably treat both machines and operating systems with the same degree of care. (At least I'm pretty sure I do. I have a PC friend who has given me advice on how to properly take care of a PC, and I also have a few Windows XP books I consult.)

 

I won't say that my Windows XP machine is woefully unstable, but it seems to me that I have to work harder (and tread more carefully) to avoid problems. This is my experience, I won't say it's the same for everyone. So you cannot fault a Mac fan for choosing Mac over Windows if they feel they did their honest best to maintain a PC properly, but still had problems. They treat the Mac with the same level of care, and no problems.

 

Why on earth would someone want to continue to deal with a machine which they feel is more difficult to deal with, when they've found one that doesn't give them the same headaches? After all, the bottom line is what the individual user feels works best for them. I would think that pushing or trying to persuade someone into using a machine which they find more difficult would be the epitome of trying to sell them a bridge.

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Seems to me that most of the Windows problems listed are 10 years old. And that's what I tried to point out earlier. If a person hasn't used a PC recently, they have no idea what they're missing. Either way, this is a software issue, and not really a PC vs Mac issue.

 

No one seems to be mentioning Windows 2000 either. XP was based upon W2K, which I'd still be running myself if MS were still supporting it. I think W2K was the best MS OS ever. XP is a bloated version of W2k. For what its worth, I haven't had a BSOD or boot problem with either of these operating systems in the past 7 years.

 

The problems with Vista and lists of hardware that is not yet supported are all over the internet. If someone insists upon buying it, they have only themselves to blame for not researching the problems ahead of time. And again, this has nothing to do with PC vs Mac. Its a MS problem.

 

I posted how not all Macs "just work". In fact, some Macs "just keep breaking". I can see why that was ignored as well. No one who's pro-Mac would be posting about machine failures.

 

Then someone (I'm too lazy to read back and see who) posted that Macs are about the same price as PCs now. Well I don't know where you buy your PCs and Macs, but here's a comparison in Australia with (as similar as I can make) hardware configurations.

 

Our basic PC:

Motherboard = Gigabyte GA-965P-DS3

CPU = 2.4GHz E6600 (Intel 3 yr warranty)

RAM = 2x1g ddr2-800 with lifetime warranty

Hard Drive = 500g with NCQ (5 yr warranty)

Video Card = ATI Radeon X1600/256MB VRAM (substitued to compare to the Mac)

Monitor = 20" 5ms

Microsoft Internet keyboard and mouse

PSU = 550w

AVG 7.5 Internet Security Suite (firewall, anti-spyware, anti-adware, anti-virus) 2 yr subscription

2 year in home warranty, phone support included (components with separate warranties have the longer warranty supported by us)

Windows XP Home Edition

Total Cost = $1700.00AUD including GST

 

Apple iMac (with Apple upgrades to match the above system)

Motherboard - not listed

CPU = 2.33GHz Intel Core 2 Duo (Intel doesn't officially list a 2.33GHz C2D so I used the 2.4GHz E6600 for our system)

RAM = 2x1g (Speed not listed, Standard Apple Warranty)

Hard Drive = 500g (no NCQ, Standard Apple Warranty)

ATI Radeon X1600/256MB VRAM

Monitor = 20" (specs not listed)

Apple Keyboard & Mighty Mouse

PSU (size not listed)

Mac OS X

Apple's Price = $3403.99AUD including GST

*Add $268 for AppleCare Protection Plan for iMac

 

These prices aren't even close.

 

Our systems aren't what you'll find on the shelf in Walmart, Kmart, or even your local Circuit City, Staples or Comp USA. However, anyone can build one for slightly more than our price, and still for considerably cheaper than they can buy a similar Mac. With our system it is also possible to run RAID 0, 1, or JBOD. (We'll substitute 2x250g hard drives with NCQ and 5 yr warranties for the same price.) Our warranty beats Apple's. Our system will beat Apple's in any benchmark or real time program you care to compare. Our systems are upgradeable to quad core CPUs. Our systems are highly overclockable with the stock cooling.

 

We only sell locally. My intention was not to generate sales from the forum, but rather to show the significant price difference between Mac and a similar PC.

 

But hey, its your money. Spend it as you like. :-)

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Good morning!

I couldn't help sharing an early morning office incident with you fellow readers...

One of my two colleagues in the office is using an up to date PC (less than 5 months old) with windows XP, while me and the third colleague use G5s with OSX. We all use Adobe CS3 and CorelDraw 12 on the PC (please note that the PC user uses Photoshop CS2 because Photoshop CS3 really slows down the PC and caused more than a lot of hung ups)...

Well, a few moments ago the PC user started swearing because his PC suddenly freezed losing all the work he did from the morning boot (about half an hour's Photoshop work)...

Now, my other (third) colleague is merely a PC user and anything but a computer freak. She's been using the Mac just over a year, while she has more than 15 years of experience working with PCs. So, she turns to our PC colleague and says: "What'd you expect? With the PCs you can never be sure. You should save every other click you make!"... :rofl2::rofl2: Repeat: she's working just over a year on a Mac while she has a 15 year experience with PCs...

 

Have a nice (problem-free) day!

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