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cmunson

Video: PC v. Mac - Apples to Apples Comparison

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I remember someone commenting about numbers of computers out there and about how Windows holds roughly 80% market share. Hmmm... Did you know that 5 years ago the Mac held only about a 2.5% market share? Did you know that the Mac now holds nearly 10% (something like 8.9 or 9.2, I don't remember the exact number) And, did you know that of a total installed base, the Mac holds nearly 18% of all desktop computers in use today?

 

Sure, the market share may be small, but that's because Mac users don't upgrade every 2-3 years like Windows users do, the useable life of a Mac is between 4-6 years, and the average operational life is more than 10 years! Granted, as it ages it becomes less capable of running the latest games and software, but as an internet machine alone, a 10-year-old Mac is more viable than a 5-year-old PC.

 

People complain about Macs not being able to run modern games. Ok, I'll admit that my 2 year old Mac Mini can't run World of Warcraft very well... even though it's a 1.5Ghz PPC G4. On the other hand, my 1.8Ghz Macbook Pro with an Intel Core2 (not Duo) is running Wow as well as, if not better than, a 2-year-old PC running WinXP Pro with a brand-new video card in it.

 

A lot of people I know, including several corporate IT professionals are switching to Mac simply because they like it better for what it does and how it does it.

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but as an internet machine alone, a 10-year-old Mac is more viable than a 5-year-old PC.

 

I highly doubt that :hammer:

People complain about Macs not being able to run modern games.

That is because most companies don't make their games for mac OS.

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Hi tolrodco

 

Not to put down your post at all, but this part needs some clarification.

The 1.8 clock processor in the Dell is also "Core 2", which means you have 2 seperate 1.8G processors that can each handle seperate threads, and has a UNIFIED L2 cache, so each core can access anything in the cache without having to go thru the FSB to get it anymore....much faster.

 

So the "virtual" (and also "actual) clock speed on the Dell is 3.6G's of processor clock....I think you need to do a re-comparison there because it does not compute properly anymore.

 

Dave

 

Ok, Dave. But since this discussion was about the same hardware, processor, ram, hard drive etc. would it not be fair to have the same hardware throughout, I mean a 1.8 and 2.16 are two different processors--sure they only differ by 30 megahertz but not all are the same. Second, unless you are running Windows XP x64 would there be a fair comparison for OS. Dell offers that option on many machines, but not everything--software, hardware--will work with the x64 version. Windows Vista isn't any better, you can install the x64 version if you have a x64 processor, however, there isn't much software out there. Thirdly you need software drivers for your hardware otherwise they are junk. Windows Vista doesn't let you run 32-bit drivers.

 

The Mac on this end has been coded to run either since the first G5 came out back in 2003. During that time, Adobe, Quark and many other software publishers have designed new products to take advantage of the 64-bit processing.

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Hi tolrodco

 

Not to put down your post at all, but this part needs some clarification.

The 1.8 clock processor in the Dell is also "Core 2", which means you have 2 seperate 1.8G processors that can each handle seperate threads, and has a UNIFIED L2 cache, so each core can access anything in the cache without having to go thru the FSB to get it anymore....much faster.

 

So the "virtual" (and also "actual) clock speed on the Dell is 3.6G's of processor clock....I think you need to do a re-comparison there because it does not compute properly anymore.

 

Also for the "Virus & Spyware" arguments...I've worked closely in the PC Security field for over 7 years and have testing new variants for some of the best known anti-malware apps around. I've worked closely with the developers and am active in the AV community. There is one very specific reason Macs don't see the amount of virus and nasties as PC's and that's strictly the NUMBERS game. No other reason. Bad guys want to Control your machine so they can use it in a unified attack with hundreds or thousands of other zombie machines. To find 1000 unprotected PC's in the 80 million out there, is rather simple....due unfortunately to the many PC users who simply "Plug in" and go whipping around opening every stupid thing they find...sorry, getting carried away here.

For a virus writer to find 1000 Macs (period) is difficult enough, since they'd have to scan at least 4,000,000 IP blocks to find 4 or 5 Macs in total. So it's simply not efficient for these writers to do any work on cracking the Mac. It takes allot of work to find new exploits and then code something stable enough to use that exploit while staying hidden is quite a task, so why waste time on a Mac. Plus finding them in the numbers you need to launch an effective attack is almost impossible, so why bother. But with Mac popularity growing, it's not going to stay like that so Mac users had better start thinking about Security very soon, or become a Victim of the hype.

Most PC virus are simply rehashes of other exploits, downloaded and spread by script kiddies who want a thrill but aren't smart enough to do it on their own. This is why there are so darn many of them out there...these kids want to make a name for themselvs within their little clique, so they d'load some exploit code, make a tiny adjustment to some part of it, and release it as a new variant on the world. It's so easy to do and the exploits are easily found on the Hacker sites, this is why so many PC exploits abound. When Mac's get popular enough to spawn this offshoot hacker community...watch out, because they'll come after you now and it'll take quite awhile for the Mac community to develop tools to stop it. Pc users are light years ahead in this regard.

 

There have been many "Proof of Concept" virus written for Mac's. There are easily as many holes in a Mac as there are in PC's, but because of the simple fact that it's a waste of time to write a Mac exploit, there are very few "In the Wild" Mac exploits. The comments by one Mac user that "He can BE lazy and careless..it doesn't matter with a Mac", is simply a stupid way to be on ANY Platform! As Macs get more popular, more exploits will be released and all these Lazy, careless Mac users are going to be hit like Wildfire as this exploit speeds thru all those unprotected Mac's...that will be ugly for those folks.

Good PC users know how to secure their machines so when new variants come out, they're pretty much buttoned up still, but Mac users are sooooo far behind in how to stay secure that they'll be vulnerable for many years after the bad guys start hitting Mac code as hard as they hit PC's now, until they learn the hard lessons us PC users have had to learn.

 

Dave

 

Well put Dave. People always talk about how PCs are so virus prone. Yet all they have to do is use common sense and be aware that the milk of human kindness does not flow in any appreciable quanity on the internet. If one will go out in a rainstorm without an umbrella one will get wet, and by the same token you will get a virus if you don't protect your computer with the proper security software. Which part of "Grow up and take responsibility don't they understand?"

MuchAdoAbout...

Edited by MuchAdoAbout...

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I've been a loyal owner of PCs for seven years, but I'm thinking about getting a Mac next time. I tuned in to the video hoping that it would convince me that "apples for apples," the PC OS operates better than the Mac OS.

 

To me, what stands out is not what the video says but what it doesn't say. It COMPLETELY AVOIDED THE SUBJECT of comparing the relative operating effectiveness of the operative systems--the most salient concern I had. I thought the PC advocate would at least attempt to address the issue at some level. Instead he seems to be trying to pretend the problem doesn't exist. That's a red flag for me if I ever saw one. :mrsgreen:

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Let's get back to what's happening NOW. No viruses or bugs to speak of. We'll deal with Apple's massive popularity (and the consequences) when it happens. What we have NOW is that Macs have almost zero virus worries.

 

I find it difficult to believe that after how many years now, hardly anyone has bothered to make a virus for Macs, just because they can. There's clearly a lot of hostility directed at Macs, and I would think that there would be a motivation to make a virus and mess us up, just to prove us wrong. I'm still waiting, waiting, waiting for a virus that is a real threat to show up. I'm sorry, but I don't think obscurity alone is the reason why there are no real virus threats for the Mac. Something else is going on. It's just been way too long.

 

I won't predict that viruses will never happen for us, but I'm not holding my breath either.

I would know nothing about this, since I am not a gamer at all and have no interest in that. I do know that a big gaming company is releasing more titles for the Mac. And that yes, Macs can run games natively via Bootcamp. Is it the same? I would not know. But if your whole computing existence revolves around games, then by all means, you should get the kind of computer that you feel is best. If that is a PC running Windows, then that is what it should be.

I'm sorry, but this is not going to fly. Having to even think about viruses and spyware is a timewaster, and something I do not need to deal with on my Mac. Say what you will, you're still having to schedule time to deal with it, you have programs running in the background, you're having to work around the fact that you have to deal with this threat. I don't. I don't do ANYTHING. So you think it's not that big of an inconvenience? Well it seems that way to me, when compared to doing NOTHING.

Doing nothing is always an advantage over having to do something—or even having to think about doing something.

 

I hear all the time about people who got their PCs messed up due to some virus, or spyware. Sure, maybe they should have been more careful, maybe they should have kept up a routine and they didn't. So they were careless or foolish or lazy. They can be careless, foolish and lazy on a Mac, and (at least in this regard) it won't matter.

 

I'm setting up my extremely computer-phobic mom with a Mac. She's the kind of person who would quake in fear of ever catching a virus, even if the risk was not that great. Knowing that she's using a Mac and that there IS almost no risk is really the best way for her. She's happy and more relaxed with this knowledge. I do not want to do a lot tech support for my mom, and this is my best guarantee that I won't have to.

To each his own. I think Macs are better. My mom definitely thinks Macs are better. The virus fear thing would have been a deal-breaker for her if she were using a PC.

 

And in response to other posts: Say what you will, Macs run software that is an industry standard. Take Final Cut Pro. Yes, it is an industry standard. Moreso (I have been told) than Adobe Premiere or Sony Vegas. Avid is still the big name in the video editing industry, and it runs on both Mac and PC. The next big app is Final Cut Pro. This is why, I believe, many film schools require that their students use Final Cut. There's jobs to be had for people skilled in this application.

 

Sure, there's a lot of software available for Windows. But so much of it is just knock offs of each other, or is plain awful. I use my PC regularly too (as well as boot into the Windows side of my Mac) and it can be a chore to find something tolerable on the PC. Less so than on the Mac. At least with my Intel-based Mac, I have a choice—I can get a well-functioning app for the Mac, or go over to Windows and find something there.

 

Another thing—that ridiculous video makes it sound like there is NO software on the Mac. The major applications that I want to use (Photoshop, Dreamweaver, Final Cut Pro, Logic, Garageband, InDesign, Illustrator) are available for Mac or are Mac-only (in the case of FCP, Logic and Garageband).

 

Few of us feel like we are missing out. Why would we? We are usually well aware of what is available on the Windows side—a lot of us are familiar with Windows (may own a PC or work on one elsewhere). We now can have Windows on our Mac. Yet so many of us report that we don't turn on our PCs all that much anymore. If we lacked something on our Macs, we'd surely be using our PCs to fill the void, wouldn't we? But many of us are not finding that we constantly must turn to our PCs to get our work done. Perhaps we are far more of an authority on what Macs lack in the software department than you are.

 

To those who are touting the apparent "invulnerability" of the Mac OS. If you were a hunter, and a good one, would you deliberately choose to hunt in an area that had little or no known game in it? Get real - who cares about writing virues for a Mac? Basically, you are a non-profit platform that because so few people are attracted to it for very, viable reasons, no hacker apparently can be bothered. This is not a claim to fame to write home to mother about!

MuchAdoAbout...

Edited by MuchAdoAbout...

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That numbers BS is just that, BS. Marketshare does play a role in the number of viruses, but a very minor one at that. Linux, and Mac OSX have millions upon millions of users. Sure, they don't have 80%+ of the market, but even if they did, they still wouldn't be big targets. It is because Mac OSX and Linux are well designed when it comes to security.

 

Also, Linux is far bigger in the server arena than Windows, and 64% of the computers running the internet use Apache, which was developed on Linux, yet you still see few viruses.

 

Marketshare plays an insignificant role in the virus game. Windows is a very exploitable, vulnerable OS, hence the many viruses.

Edited by brandon

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Also, Linux is far bigger in the server arena than Windows, and 64% of the computers running the internet use Apache, which was developed on Linux, yet you still see few viruses.

 

You just hit a salient nail on the head, Brandon. OS-X uses Apache as part of it's networking protocols, thus by that alone it is more difficult to crack the OS and hit the vulnerabilities that do exist. I'm not saying Apache is the ONLY reason but is definitely ONE of the reasons.

Edited by Vulpine

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I own and use both Mac and PC. I bought a PC because many of my customers had PC's and I needed to interface with some of their software and file types.

Both have their strengths and weaknesses!

Mac is more expensive but I prefer Rolex to Timex

and the new Mac can run both Win and OSX

2 for 1, also my current mac is 8 yrs old and runs latest OS at full speed

because I can upgrade my processor to 8 times its original speed for a very

reasonable price.

Also I have never had a Mac OS that failed to boot at startup

It has happened way too often on my pc's

I have had to buy all kinds of virus and spam protection software for my pc

to keep it from getting taken over by hackers and none for the Mac.

Many businesses use pc's because they are cheap and

for the same reason they don't get their employees Rolls for their company cars.

Look carefully at your high end user and people who want quality without OS problems

and hacker problems and you will find people willing to pay more to get the better product

If money is the main consideration buy a pc. If quality and reliability are more important

you won't buy a Timex. I don't like having to pay top dollar but when I look at the overall

cost to me over 8 years with the Mac I really come out ahead in the long run.

My first pc only cost $650 but it was dead in 3 years after lots of problems

My Mac cost $1200 and and $500 in upgrades but it runs like a top and has never failed to boot.

and it is still going after 8 years, you do the math. I like some programs on the PC that are not

available for Mac but almost every serious software co. makes for both

like Adobe and Intuit and many others.

I will continue to use both systems for many reasons but now I can run both on a new Intel Mac.

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I own and use both Mac and PC. I bought a PC because many of my customers had PC's and I needed to interface with some of their software and file types.

Both have their strengths and weaknesses!

Mac is more expensive but I prefer Rolex to Timex

and the new Mac can run both Win and OSX

2 for 1, also my current mac is 8 yrs old and runs latest OS at full speed

because I can upgrade my processor to 8 times its original speed for a very

reasonable price.

Also I have never had a Mac OS that failed to boot at startup

It has happened way too often on my pc's

I have had to buy all kinds of virus and spam protection software for my pc

to keep it from getting taken over by hackers and none for the Mac.

Many businesses use pc's because they are cheap and

for the same reason they don't get their employees Rolls for their company cars.

Look carefully at your high end user and people who want quality without OS problems

and hacker problems and you will find people willing to pay more to get the better product

If money is the main consideration buy a pc. If quality and reliability are more important

you won't buy a Timex. I don't like having to pay top dollar but when I look at the overall

cost to me over 8 years with the Mac I really come out ahead in the long run.

My first pc only cost $650 but it was dead in 3 years after lots of problems

My Mac cost $1200 and and $500 in upgrades but it runs like a top and has never failed to boot.

and it is still going after 8 years, you do the math. I like some programs on the PC that are not

available for Mac but almost every serious software co. makes for both

like Adobe and Intuit and many others.

I will continue to use both systems for many reasons but now I can run both on a new Intel Mac.

 

There is no such thing as a Mac any more. They're just PCs in shiny cases now. As for "Macs" being able to run Windows, a PC can run OSX too. It may be illegal, but it can be done. Macs have no reason to exist any more. As for your upgrading the processor to 8x the speed, what kind of processor do you have? If it is anything above 125Mhz, it's not gonna happen. Eight years ago, the G3 was the processor used in Macs, and the fastest one is about 1Ghz or so. And I doubt a 125Mhz Processor can run OSX at all. ;)

 

I have an eight year old PC that's running like a Champ too. It may be running Windows 2000, but it runs it far faster than an eight year old Mac will run OSX, plus it can run almost any Windows app, and there aren't upgrades that just include a few new features to warrant a $129 pricetag. Note, I said Windows 2000, not XP, or Vista, which are pretty much all based off Windows NT/2000, but with a more modern kernel.

 

That's not saying I don't like OSX, in fact, I love it. It is a superbly designed OS, but Macs are pointless now, except for the bling factor.

 

BTW, Mac OS 9 sucks. It was plagued by all the same problems as Windows 98, and had nothing resembling security, just like 98.

 

My current PC cost about $350, and it outperforms pretty much every Mac, except the Mac Pro, and I can upgrade to a better video card than any Mac has. The X1900XT isn't even available for the Mac, and I have one. Where's the 8800 Mac edition? It's nowhere to be found, just like the possibilities of meaningful upgrades.

 

Show me a Mac with a 3Ghz Core 2 e6300, 2GB of DDR2-800 RAM running at DDR2-1000, a 400GB HD, and an X1900XT.

Edited by brandon

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Is this review supposed to be about Apple vs Microsoft, or Mac vs PC? Although it seems to be about Mac vs PC, it crossed the line to the OS several times. Well here's a news flash for the author: a PC will run any OS you care to put on it. Can't say the same for a Mac. Pointing out how the most secure server OS's aren't made by Microsoft isn't exactly a selling point for Apple either.

 

Since we own a "custom' computer business (build systems from scratch, do repairs, upgrades, networking, etc.) I've always been a bit biased toward PCs.

 

Having 2 nephews go through graphic arts courses and owning Macs of their own made me an even bigger fan of PCs.

 

Both nephews bought G5s new when they first became available. Both G5s were in the shop more than in their homes for 3 years. After almost 3 years of headaches, one nephew upgraded to a PowerMac and we built a system for the other one. After almost 2 years, both systems have run reliably, although the PowerMac user paid twice as much and is constantly borrowing his brother's PC for games and apps that won't run on his PowerMac. Both nephews stated that at any given time, a good number of the Mac systems in their classrooms (which use only Macs) were down for repairs. They were constantly sharing a Mac with a classmate because the broken systems created shortages. By contrast, we've had 1 PC come back for a video card going out while under (the 2 year) warranty out of the 400+ systems that we've built in the past 3 years. Find me 400+ Mac owners who can say the same thing and I'll rethink my position. Until then I'm not buying that Macs are more dependable based upon our real life experience.

 

As for viruses, we haven't had one on our PCs in years, and we have 5 children from 13 to 18 years old. Occasionally we did have a bout with spyware, but not since using CounterSpy 2.0 and AVG Network Edition (with the anti-spyware that AVG purchased from Ewido) which is over a year now since I'm on the beta testing program for CounterSpy. At any rate, spyware is a simple fix and not a big deal to us. Viruses are almost extinct as they've been replaced by spyware/adware. I can't remember the last time I had an actual virus on a customer's system to fix either. So to say that Macs haven't gotten any viruses doesn't impress me much.

 

The only BSOD or non-boot issues we've had on PCs since Windows 98 were due to RAID problems, which had nothing to do with the OS or the PC itself. There have been a couple of occasions when the Windows XP installation was corrupt from the start and had to be re-installed. No biggy considering the percentage is very low and the hardware varies considerably. Most of the repairs we do on customer systems for the OS have been caused by user error. I'm quite sure a Mac user can mess up their OS just as easily by clicking things they shouldn't. I see no advantage for PC or Mac on this issue.

 

Then there's price. Since we buy wholesale, I can sell a system for roughly half the price of any given Mac with the similar components, and the PC will out-perform it in every case easily. But then we don't mark up our prices the way the big 3 do either.

 

The big 3 (Dell, HP, and Gateway) aren't competing with Macs. These manufacturers don't build their own components. Instead they buy a few good components and a few not so good, all from other manufacturers, all at bulk, and all on the cheap. Then they build systems that can't be upgraded much (OK that one is similar to Apple), put a 1 year warranty on them, and sell them to impulse buyers. But I love the big 3 because most of our business comes from people who've made the mistake of buying one of their systems first and now want something better.

 

Any Macs owners care to compare benchmarks? Of course not. Mac has never done head to head benchmarks with PCs because they can't compete. Anyone who thinks a similar CPU will level that playing field doesn't know much about what all is involved. Where time is money, there is no contest.

 

Any Mac owner who wants to compare their memory performance to the latest PC offerings for DDR2 will be disappointed too.

 

Then there's upgradability. We pride ourselves on upgradeability. However computer technology has been advancing so fast for the last few years that its very hard to offer a motherboard today that will run the CPUs and RAM of tomorrow. Still, our basic system is upgradeable to the Penryn (quad core) CPUs, the latest graphic cards, and DDR3. No Mac on the market can claim that at this point. As Apple makes more hardware and software available for their systems, they'll experience the same growing pains that Microsoft did. Right now Microsoft is light years ahead in this regard.

 

I'm not a big fan of Vista. After running it for over a year (from the first available betas to the present OEMs) I find it slow, a resource hog, and the security is similar to OSX in that its a PITA. I keep reading about how Vista will become the greatest OS ever, but I have my doubts as Microsoft's new OS plans on incorporating the file system that was eliminated from Vista. If that's the case, it isn't likely that Microsoft will spend too much time perfecting Vista as the new OS will make it obsolete anyway. We'll see.

 

Anyway.. people will like what they like.

 

I think the review was unrealistic and biased. Apples to apples would have been a PC of the same price as the Mac. But again, in order to make the Mac look better, a lesser PC has to be compared. On top of that, the author has obviously never had a good PC to compare to. Go figure.

Edited by dark41

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There is no such thing as a Mac any more. They're just PCs in shiny cases now. As for "Macs" being able to run Windows, a PC can run OSX too. It may be illegal, but it can be done. Macs have no reason to exist any more. As for your upgrading the processor to 8x the speed, what kind of processor do you have? If it is anything above 125Mhz, it's not gonna happen. Eight years ago, the G3 was the processor used in Macs, and the fastest one is about 1Ghz or so. And I doubt a 125Mhz Processor can run OSX at all. ;)

 

My current PC cost about $350, and it outperforms pretty much every Mac, except the Mac Pro, and I can upgrade to a better video card than any Mac has. The X1900XT isn't even available for the Mac, and I have one. Where's the 8800 Mac edition? It's nowhere to be found, just like the possibilities of meaningful upgrades.

 

Show me a Mac with a 3Ghz Core 2 e6300, 2GB of DDR2-800 RAM running at DDR2-1000, a 400GB HD, and an X1900XT.

 

Brandon, thanks for the feedback, I have never run anything but win xp on my pc and it works ok except that the os gets contaminated or screwed up somehow and won't boot.

this was my main problem with pc's I'm very impressed that you were able to put together a fast component machine for $350. How did you get everything so cheap? Not sure why you are running win 2000, every review I read says xp is the top microsoft os. I can only guess you don't want to spend the extra money. If you are happy with your pc and win 2000 and they do everything you want by all means

stay with them.

Myself, I am looking forward to getting a new Intel Mac as soon as their new OS comes out and loading a copy of XP pro with Parallels Desktop for the mac. I tried out Parallels with a friends Mac and it does an amazing job of running both OS's at the same time. Hit one key and switch between the two.

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Hey that was great! What an eyeopener!

 

I think, though, it would have been more effective to start out: "Hey Mac users, :filtered: you!"

 

I'm a long-time PC user and recent Mac user, and own both. Guess which one I like better (Mac). Oh, and before you start the name-calling, I'd like to mention that I have a college degree in PC Computer Systems and a Net+ certification. I really feel sorry for those of you out there that feel completely threatened by Macs, but if you don't like them, then just don't buy them. There's no reason to do things like this - PCs are not going to lose hold of their market.

 

Not only is most of this video extremely bias, it is completely unprofessional (and almost childish). Way to make Microsoft proud, :filtered:.

 

(And by the way, your presentation would have looked better if you'd done it on a Mac ;) )

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Hey that was great! What an eyeopener!

 

I think, though, it would have been more effective to start out: "Hey Mac users, :filtered: you!"

 

I'm a long-time PC user and recent Mac user, and own both. Guess which one I like better (Mac). Oh, and before you start the name-calling, I'd like to mention that I have a college degree in PC Computer Systems and a Net+ certification. I really feel sorry for those of you out there that feel completely threatened by Macs, but if you don't like them, then just don't buy them. There's no reason to do things like this - PCs are not going to lose hold of their market.

 

Not only is most of this video extremely bias, it is completely unprofessional (and almost childish). Way to make Microsoft proud, :filtered:.

 

(And by the way, your presentation would have looked better if you'd done it on a Mac ;) )

 

Don't speak of bias if you yourself are biased. Kinda hypocritical don't ya think? ;)

 

I'm a fan of whatever gets the job done. That's why I have Linux, Windows 2000, and Mac OSX all installed on my PC. When I want productivity, I use Linux. When I want gaming, I use Windows. When I want an OS that looks really nice, and does pretty much everything Linux can do, I use OSX, even though it is redundant.

 

BTW, posting what ever degrees you may or may not have does not make you any more knowledgeable on the subject. That's the beauty of an opinion, it is neither fact nor fiction, it is an OPINION.

 

Mac users are the same way regarding PCs. Ironic as it may sound, since Macs are no longer Macs, but PCs in a shiny case.

 

Apple has the same rabid fanboys that PCs have, except there are less of them. Every time you mention PCs, the rabid fanboys automatically assume it has to have Windows on it, and they automatically assume that the user is some low-brow Windows user that doesn't know his :filtered: from a hole in the ground. However, as soon as you mention Linux, they act like they haven't a clue, because they looked stupid when they assumed you were some idiot using Windows. Note: This is from ym experience on a Mac message board I was once a member of, when I owned a PowerMac G4.

 

Nope. I_G

Edited by IntelGuy

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Congratulations, for comparing apples to Apples. Except you forgot a few key elements. You only talked about price, and available software. You forgot to mention that the new Vista OS, a $300 nightmare (say goodbye to your savings, thrifty PC users!!), is a bloated memory hog prone to problems, and let's not forget all the fun you've had trying to get all your old peripherals to work with it! How much is your time worth again?

Let's also not forget all the security risks and viruses that the PCs encounter with their "free" software (as well as the paid stuff). How much is your PC's anti-viral software upgrade per year again? Let's not forget all the hours and dollars you'll have to spend if a successful virus or trojan horse or worm (etc etc) ruins your software and corrupts your hard drive.

Mac's Leopard is coming out later this year (or promised to). It will be a major upgrade, but it won't bog down the old computers upgrading to it. It will also work with ALL the current software and peripherals already on the old computers.

So let me ask the sneery PC user who was trying to sell the Mac users a bridge: how did you come to own the bridge you're trying to sell in the first? Who sold it to you? Was it Bill Gates? Did he lure you into buying his crappy product with the promise of a cheaper computer and more available software, only to make you buy more and more upgrades and protection?

Edited by dredzo

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What a hilarious video!!! That was good! That was really good! Thanx pal, you made my day! Keep up the good work!

 

What? You were talking seriously? No way!!!

 

I'll tell you three words, my friend: "It just works!" (and I mean the Mac)...

 

...while you're downloading the latest anti-virus database...

...while you are cleaning your registry...

...while you're trying to get rid of all that mal-spy-ad-ware...

...while you are searching for the latest drivers for your new peripheral...

...while you're trying to figure out if it's the video card, the sound card, or your web-camera that conflicts with your brand new scanner...

...while you're are trying to set up some skin-software, so that your PC will look like a Mac...

...while you're pressing again CTRL-ALT-DEL (can you imagine that the vast majority of Mac users don't even know what key combination they should press to reset their machines? -- they don't need to!!!)...

...while you're reading if you should firstly install the drivers and then plug-in your new USB device, or is it the other way?... (also known as plug and pray)...

...while you're searching for the best software (like PC Pitstop) to enhance your PC booting time, memory management, registry, etc, etc...

...while you are trying to get back to a safe boot-point (I don't know how this is called in English)...

 

It just works, my friend, while you're trying to persuade us that any PC in better...

 

Even Microsoft have learned that! The (Hasta la) Vista presentation in Belgium was made on a Mac, knowing that it is a far more reliable machine (remember that Bill Gates' blue screen incident? -- they didn't want to repeat it, so they used a Mac)...

 

The first time a Mac crashed in the office, three employees took out our cell-phones and took pictures of the screen so we'd had a proof! That rare! (As it turned out it was a malfunctioning series of video cards and Apple had extended it's warranty and gladly replaced free of charge every machine in the world with such a card)... Did the problem occurred again? Nope!

 

Wanna talk about software quantity? Sorry to inform you that most Mac users don't need all that software! Their machines are far more better than any PC user could ever be able to get using any of this software... Don't forget that quantity doesn't mean quality... The fact is that while PC users may really need all that software to make their machines work, Mac users just got all that (and even more) out of the pack! No additional help needed!... That simple!

 

Wanna try history? OK! Mac users were using MS Word, MS Excel, etc, long before PCs got their first even graphical interface (I think it was Digital Research's GEM) and while PC users were trying to imagine how would their plain text documents look when printed... Talking about music? When we were recording in studio with Pro Tools the best PCs could do was "beeep"... Wanna try speech synthesis with no extra software/hardware?... Go on!...

 

Oh, I could go on forever, but I find it useless... Ignorance isn't always a bliss, my friend... You should go deeper... I could send you a screen capture of a G5 (not even a Duo!) running XP in one window and surfing the net in it, while running Windows Me in another window and grabbing some CDs, while all three programs of the Adobe armanda (Photoshop, Illustrator and InDesign) running in OSX... That on a PC??? Not even in your wildest dreams!...

 

And the future?... Just take a look at Leopard... I bet you'll see many ideas to copy and try to install them on your PC with a bunch of software and utilities that will follow...

 

Be happy, my friend! You own a fantastic, super-duper-powered machine at a fragment of a price of any Mac... Isn't it wonderful?

Edited by Sixten66

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just watched the video with the wife and after it was over she made the comment that with her apple she don't need pc pitstop Edited by lubedude

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free software, better security, better reliability, overall a better operating system, these outweigh all of the' above.

 

Wow i totally agree. I have both Mac and PC . The PC SUXS !!! How great is MAC that i still have a G4 and it works great like the day i bought it..I just bought a PC a year ago a HP Pavillion a 1030 e (windows XP) not happy with it plus i spend $3000. for what!. To navigate and toggle through windows is cumbersome. If you want to force quit in Windows its a pain in the :filtered:! Now i hardly use the interenet on the PC because i was getting viruses like crazy and the anti-viral software i had didnt clean up all the viruses. Why spent so much money on Software if it doesnt work ! I even have problems with Itunes on the PC. And the worst part is the CD Burner I cant burn cds or even load cds anymore .Plus to troubleshoot and fix a problem takes for ever and if you are stuck and have to call customer support they dont even know what to do. As for the MAC,Software ,Hardware and virus protection is better.MACS lasts . I have the same MAC for years works great and i can upgrade the OS and it doesnt take alot of memory .Never hard software corrupt, no Viruses and the hardware is still intact.How can you have a PC for a year and it falls apart .Only a year and the CD-Writer/DVD-Rom Combo doesnt work . So know i have to put more $$$ to fix it! As a designer/animator sorry everyone Mac kicks :filtered: .Its a better investment for a computer that lasts.

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What a hilarious video!!! That was good! That was really good! Thanx pal, you made my day! Keep up the good work!

 

What? You were talking seriously? No way!!!

 

I'll tell you three words, my friend: "It just works!" (and I mean the Mac)...

 

...while you're downloading the latest anti-virus database...

...while you are cleaning your registry...

...while you're trying to get rid of all that mal-spy-ad-ware...

...while you are searching for the latest drivers for your new peripheral...

...while you're trying to figure out if it's the video card, the sound card, or your web-camera that conflicts with your brand new scanner...

...while you're are trying to set up some skin-software, so that your PC will look like a Mac...

...while you're pressing again CTRL-ALT-DEL (can you imagine that the vast majority of Mac users don't even know what key combination they should press to reset their machines? -- they don't need to!!!)...

...while you're reading if you should firstly install the drivers and then plug-in your new USB device, or is it the other way?... (also known as plug and pray)...

...while you're searching for the best software (like PC Pitstop) to enhance your PC booting time, memory management, registry, etc, etc...

...while you are trying to get back to a safe boot-point (I don't know how this is called in English)...

 

It just works, my friend, while you're trying to persuade us that any PC in better...

 

Even Microsoft have learned that! The (Hasta la) Vista presentation in Belgium was made on a Mac, knowing that it is a far more reliable machine (remember that Bill Gates' blue screen incident? -- they didn't want to repeat it, so they used a Mac)...

 

The first time a Mac crashed in the office, three employees took out our cell-phones and took pictures of the screen so we'd had a proof! That rare! (As it turned out it was a malfunctioning series of video cards and Apple had extended it's warranty and gladly replaced free of charge every machine in the world with such a card)... Did the problem occurred again? Nope!

 

Wanna talk about software quantity? Sorry to inform you that most Mac users don't need all that software! Their machines are far more better than any PC user could ever be able to get using any of this software... Don't forget that quantity doesn't mean quality... The fact is that while PC users may really need all that software to make their machines work, Mac users just got all that (and even more) out of the pack! No additional help needed!... That simple!

 

Wanna try history? OK! Mac users were using MS Word, MS Excel, etc, long before PCs got their first even graphical interface (I think it was Digital Research's GEM) and while PC users were trying to imagine how would their plain text documents look when printed... Talking about music? When we were recording in studio with Pro Tools the best PCs could do was "beeep"... Wanna try speech synthesis with no extra software/hardware?... Go on!...

 

Oh, I could go on forever, but I find it useless... Ignorance isn't always a bliss, my friend... You should go deeper... I could send you a screen capture of a G5 (not even a Duo!) running XP in one window and surfing the net in it, while running Windows Me in another window and grabbing some CDs, while all three programs of the Adobe armanda (Photoshop, Illustrator and InDesign) running in OSX... That on a PC??? Not even in your wildest dreams!...

 

And the future?... Just take a look at Leopard... I bet you'll see many ideas to copy and try to install them on your PC with a bunch of software and utilities that will follow...

 

Be happy, my friend! You own a fantastic, super-duper-powered machine at a fragment of a price of any Mac... Isn't it wonderful?

 

There is a counterpoint to every argument but one that you have made, and I can sum it up in one word: Linux.

 

As for the history bit, you are wrong. Amiga was far more advanced than the Mac was, and it continued to be for quite some time afterwards. Did the Mac have a color display in the 80s? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Amiga500_system.jpg

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amiga : It may be Wikipedia, but it is spot on regarding the Amiga.

 

I like this quote from the article: "sophisticated pre-emptive multitasking operating system". Macs didn't have that until OSX. Hell, even Windows 95 had that, and it came out 6 years before OSX.

 

As for the Macs not crashing, where have you been since 1984? Classic Mac OS was a POS. It had horrible memory management, horrible security, no pre-emptive multi-tasking, pretty much every problem Windows has/had. It took Apple 17 years to get it right, and I must admit, I truly like OSX.

 

As for the machines being better, how so? The G5 could only attain about 80% of the performance of a similiarly clocked x86 processor, and the G5 had to be watercooled in order to run at speeds above 2Ghz. The G4 was plagued by a slow FSB, and the G3 didn't even have on-die cache until late into its production. Plus, Macs are using Intel processors now, so they are at the mercy of the very company that produces processors for what you would consider PCs. ;)

Edited by brandon

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Wow i totally agree. I have both Mac and PC . The PC SUXS !!! How great is MAC that i still have a G4 and it works great like the day i bought it..I just bought a PC a year ago a HP Pavillion a 1030 e (windows XP) not happy with it plus i spend $3000. for what!. To navigate and toggle through windows is cumbersome. If you want to force quit in Windows its a pain in the :filtered:! Now i hardly use the interenet on the PC because i was getting viruses like crazy and the anti-viral software i had didnt clean up all the viruses. Why spent so much money on Software if it doesnt work ! I even have problems with Itunes on the PC. And the worst part is the CD Burner I cant burn cds or even load cds anymore .Plus to troubleshoot and fix a problem takes for ever and if you are stuck and have to call customer support they dont even know what to do. As for the MAC,Software ,Hardware and virus protection is better.MACS lasts . I have the same MAC for years works great and i can upgrade the OS and it doesnt take alot of memory .Never hard software corrupt, no Viruses and the hardware is still intact.How can you have a PC for a year and it falls apart .Only a year and the CD-Writer/DVD-Rom Combo doesnt work . So know i have to put more $$$ to fix it! As a designer/animator sorry everyone Mac kicks :filtered: .Its a better investment for a computer that lasts.

 

Exactly. It is a better investment to buy a computer that lasts. That's why people buy PCs. The sheer upgradibility, plus the fact that Linux is more secure than OSX, makes PCs a better buy.

 

It's ironic that I have a PC I bought almost 9 years ago, dual booting Linux and Windows 2000, and it works better than the day I bought it via numerous upgrades that wouldn't be possible on a Mac. Try running Mac OSX on a 9 year old Mac, and it won't perform nearly as smoothly as Linux or Windows do on my lowly PC.

 

Try getting an 8800GTX for a Mac. They don't exist.

Edited by brandon

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Windows may have copied Mac, but Mac also copied someone. Xerox, and their Alto, with the world's first GUI.

 

"A trip to Xerox PARC by Apple Computer's Steve Jobs in 1979 led to the graphical user interface and mouse being integrated into the Apple Lisa and, later, the first Macintosh. Steve Jobs was shown the Smalltalk-80 programming environment, networking and most importantly the WYSIWYG, mouse-driven GUI interface provided by the Alto."

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xerox_Alto

Edited by brandon

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Did the Mac have a color display in the 80s?

Well, Spectrum 48K and Amstrad 128 had colour display during the 80's (not to mention Oric, Commodore 64, etc)!... Suppose that makes those machines better than Mac?...

 

As for the Macs not crashing, where have you been since 1984? Classic Mac OS was a POS. It had horrible memory management, horrible security, no pre-emptive multi-tasking, pretty much every problem Windows has/had. It took Apple 17 years to get it right, and I must admit, I truly like OSX.

Let's try to compare systems on parallel eras... You mention 1984... Windows 1.0 hit the market at November 1985 (that's almost 2 years later, since Mac OS was released January 1984 - not to mention Lisa OS a year earlier, January 1983)... And even then Windows was not an operating system, but it was a graphical interface for MS-DOS... The first acceptable version of Windows was 3.1 (still a graphical interface and not an operating system) and that was not before 1992 (that's 8 years later!) and if we would like something to compare we would need Windows 95 (and that's 11 years later!) with long filenames etc... So, if you'd like to compare something you should go like this: Year 1984, Mac = Mac OS with graphic interface capable of running multiple applications simultaneously } PCs = MS DOS no graphic interface, not capable of running multiple applications simultaneously, Year 1985, 1986, 1987 etc... You can't compare the crashing 1984 Mac OS with the crashing 2000 Windows XP...

 

I'm not into techno-jargon ( I don't know what "pre-emptive multitasking operating system" means), but I know which machine gets the work done at the end of the day, the fastest, more secure and reliable way and that machine bears a bitten apple logo on it...

 

Since 1981, I've been through Spectrum, Amstrad all sorts of Ataris (ST to TT and Falcon - including hardware emulators for PCs and Macs -- Aladin, Spectre 128, etc), Commodore, Amiga, all sorts of PCs, and many Macs (Classic, Quadra, G3, G4, G5), ending up to using today a PC and a G5. All these years I discovered that every PC was a lesser machine than any of the others, compared of course at the same eras, including sound, video, multitasking, ease of use, security, stability, etc...

 

No video can convince me of any PC superiority and no user should be convinced before he/she tries to get any job done in both systems. My proposal: if possible, try to live your everyday computer life with a PC for a month and then try another month with a Mac... You don't need no video to find out the truth...

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Mac OSes before OSX were all based on the 1984 Mac OS, hence Classic Mac OS. 9.2.2 was released in 2001, around the time when XP was released, and it still had mostly the same limitations as the Mac OS of 1984. Namely, the lack of preemptive multi-tasking, bad memory management, and nothing resembling security.

 

And yes, you can compare the two, since like I said, all Macintosh OSes before OSX were based on Mac classic, and it had its run all the way up into 2001, when 2000 and XP were both out on the market.

 

I've been using Macs since I was in elementary school, and I've been using Windows since 1999. I don't like Windows, I don't like Classic Mac OS, I like Linux, and OSX.

 

How is the PC a lesser platform? Is it performance-wise, software-wise, what?

 

http://anandtech.com/mac/showdoc.aspx?i=2436

 

Posted Image

 

 

I wasn't comparing Mac OS to Windows 3.1. I just stated that it took 17 years for a feature Windows 95 had since its inception to reach Mac OS, namely preemptive multi-tasking.

Edited by brandon

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I wasn't comparing Mac OS to Windows 3.1. I just stated that it took 17 years for a feature Windows 95 had since its inception to reach Mac OS, namely preemptive multi-tasking.

 

 

Well, maybe you're right, Brandon; maybe the Mac OS (not based on Classic, OS3 through OS9 WERE Classic) didn't have PREEMPTIVE multitasking, but the Mac OS did have multitasing long before Windows 95 came out, so Win95 was 10 years late with a decent graphical interface. In fact, when Win95 came out, everybody in the plant where I worked asked ME, a Mac user at the time, how to use it!

 

In all honesty, WinXP is probably the best iteration of Windows to come out of Redmond, EVER. For once the BSOD became a rarity and you didn't have to reinstall the OS every 6 months to maintain reliability. Oddly enough, nearly every feature in XP had been released and proven years before in OS9 and improved even more by the upgrade to OS X.

 

What is Vista? It is an attempt to make Windows look and perform something like OS X, more than 6 years AFTER OS X hit the market. And by everything I've read from reviewers and IT professionals alike say that Vista is a step Backwards in performance, reliability and security.

 

Yes, I own a PC running WinXP. Why? Because at the time Windows was the only way to play some of the great games on the market. But guess what? Because of the change from the PowerPC processors that manufacturers refused to improve, the Mac and OS X are now capable of playing those games, even the world's most popular MMORPG, World of Warcraft, I am replacing my Windows machine with a Leopard Mac, only installing Windows XP to run specific software (not games) not yet ported to OS X.

Edited by Vulpine

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