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Video: PC v. Mac - Apples to Apples Comparison

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leopard looks nice, but games have to come first in my book

 

is apple ever goin to open up support for amd's or nvidia 8800gtx's, if not already that might help some with getting developer support

 

You evaluate your OS by games and looks? OK...

Anyway, all Windows games play on macs.

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They do? :huh:

 

When did that happen? :shrug:

 

Since they made it possible to install Windows on a Mac.

 

Seeing how the title implies a hardware comparison and not a comparison of the OS.

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You evaluate your OS by games and looks? OK...

Anyway, all Windows games play on macs.

 

well yeah, why wouldnt I?

all i do is get read online or game...thats it, its all i need, wait i occasionally burn a music cd now and then

besides the OS itself is irrelevant, its suppose to be invisible, the programs is what you use...i just prefer a pretty gui to navigate to them :)

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well yeah, why wouldnt I?

all i do is get read online or game...thats it, its all i need, wait i occasionally burn a music cd now and then

besides the OS itself is irrelevant, its suppose to be invisible, the programs is what you use...i just prefer a pretty gui to navigate to them :)

 

Wait, you prefer a pretty GUI? I thought you said OSX looked nice?

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I'm glad the conversation is still going.

 

I read that comment about Windows Games running on the Mac, I agree. I started using Crossover recently more than before and I just installed UT GOTY and it works great--opengl full resolution etc. I really think this is where things could be going...I actually now feel that Windows is becoming...dare I say it, worthless?

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I'm glad the conversation is still going.

 

I just installed UT GOTY and it works great--opengl full resolution etc.

 

Now try running it in DirectX mode.

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its funny that there are open source games will also run on mac and windows, so lets not discuss proprietaryX/ DIRECTX®

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And, if you have an older Apple computer and you call Apple up they will help you no matter what.

... as long as you paid $250 or more for applecare.

 

While most businesses tend to go for PC's, many industries require or use Macs (publishing, photography, Hollywood).

Any other industries? Those don't require a mac.

 

You can run adobe indesign on a mac or pc.

While the mac has final cut pro, the pc has sony vegas, adobe premiere pro, etc.

photoshop runs on both operating systems..

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Three very valid points to consider for Mac people:

 

1. ) Sure, for now there's an advantage of Macs not having a problem

with bugs such as spyware, malware, trojans, worms, viruses, etc.

But let's be hypothetical for a minute!! Suppose Apple/Mac as a company

got their way and all of a sudden, everybody started buying Macs. Let's say

that within two years PCs were a thing of the past and most users in the

whole world were switched to Macs. Ok, duh, then guess what?? All the

evil bug geeks would then start developing for the Mac OSs the nasty stuff

we Windows PC users have been dealing with for years. Uh-oh, now what??

Gee, the main advantage of having a Mac all the overzealous Mac users

brag about incessantly would now be moot. Then Windows users would

have the advantage and could surf to their hearts content like the Macies

do now. Get it in your heads, the reason why few evil geeks write nasty

software for Macs is because not enough people use them or want them.

If the Mac market even doubles from it's present market share, I predict

the bugs will be written by the legion.

Case dismissed!!

 

2.) There's a lot of bragging about how you can run Windows on a Mac now with

some special program. Well guess what?? I'm a gamer and of the games

I play, nobody has been able to run the games very well on a Mac with

even close to the frame rates they can get on a dedicated PC. Especially

games which are graphics intensive or even processor intensive or

combination of both. Most games I play are graphically, memory and

processor intensive. This is death to an Apple/Mac! I've yet to hear

of one single instance where someone had gotten a serious game to run

as well on a Mac using this new capability they brag about so much. Some

lite game like Solitaire yes, but a kickbutt game, no way!!

 

3.) Here's a near myth: You lose productivity time on a PC compared to

a Mac because you don't have to spend time on a Mac running virus/malware

scanners. Well, this depends....while it's true that you should perform these

chores on a PC, it need not eat up precious time and take away from doing

other things. In my case, I use PCs more at home than I do at work. All

I do is one of two things and because I do things this way I lose little, if any

time. The first method I use is to run my PC while I go somewhere and let

it do a virus scan. Next day I may do a malware scan, possilbly by allowing

my PC to run while I go to sleep or something. Doing this only takes a few

seconds to start up said scanner and detracts not at all from my time doing

fun or productive things on my PC. I have to leave my PC running more this

way but big deal.

 

Second way is to just start a scan of some sort and just continue working

or playing at another program while it does it's thing. Since PCs multi-task

these days better than a Mac does, doing this hardly affects anything. Although

I can't play a really heavy duty game that's intensive while doing this and expect

to get frames as fast in the game. But a light game, or web surfing, not a problem!!

So in a nutshell I lose only a scant bit of time scanning for all those baddies that

might hurt my PC. Another so-called "advantage" Mac has over PC disspelled.

And of course if, as I aformentioned, Macs gain a bit in popularity, ( which they

won't ) then Macs users will eventually have to get use to this type of thing!!

 

In conclusion, please spare us all of the smug "Macs are better" junk.

If Apple had to develop an OS that could run on the myriad combinations of

motherboards, chipsets, graphics cards, sound cards that Windows has already

conquered, then it would be big problems for Apple. As it is, they only have

to make due with a few proprietary Apple brand pieces of hardware, so of course

it's easy to get their OS to run reasonably well. This is not to mention all the drivers

that tell Windows how to work with all those myriads of hardware combinations.

Apple would be sunk if they had to do this. The fact that Windows runs pretty

well on so much diverse hardware attests to it's decent coding.

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When comparing prices, why do folks only look at the sticker price? How valuable is one's time? The time I save not having to run spyware and virus checkers makes up the price difference quickly.

 

As I have already posted, I don't use much time at all doing virus or adware scans. What, do you think most people start up Norton anti-virus and just sit there watching it?? Don't be naive, nobody loses much time, ( usually almost no time ) by having to scan with scanners. As a matter of fact, in that huge post I made, I was running a malware scanner called X-cleaner while I typed the message. It was seamless and by the time I got done writing the scanner was done. Lost productivity, yet another myth spread around by the Mac user crowd. What a bunch of horse do-do........I forgot how to laugh at such drivel.

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1. ) But let's be hypothetical for a minute!! Suppose Apple/Mac as a company

got their way and all of a sudden, everybody started buying Macs. Let's say

that within two years PCs were a thing of the past and most users in the

whole world were switched to Macs. Ok, duh, then guess what??

Let's get back to what's happening NOW. No viruses or bugs to speak of. We'll deal with Apple's massive popularity (and the consequences) when it happens. What we have NOW is that Macs have almost zero virus worries.

Get it in your heads, the reason why few evil geeks write nasty

software for Macs is because not enough people use them or want them.

If the Mac market even doubles from it's present market share, I predict

the bugs will be written by the legion.

Case dismissed!!

I find it difficult to believe that after how many years now, hardly anyone has bothered to make a virus for Macs, just because they can. There's clearly a lot of hostility directed at Macs, and I would think that there would be a motivation to make a virus and mess us up, just to prove us wrong. I'm still waiting, waiting, waiting for a virus that is a real threat to show up. I'm sorry, but I don't think obscurity alone is the reason why there are no real virus threats for the Mac. Something else is going on. It's just been way too long.

 

I won't predict that viruses will never happen for us, but I'm not holding my breath either.

 

2.) There's a lot of bragging about how you can run Windows on a Mac now with

some special program. Well guess what?? I'm a gamer and of the games

I play, nobody has been able to run the games very well on a Mac with

even close to the frame rates they can get on a dedicated PC.

I would know nothing about this, since I am not a gamer at all and have no interest in that. I do know that a big gaming company is releasing more titles for the Mac. And that yes, Macs can run games natively via Bootcamp. Is it the same? I would not know. But if your whole computing existence revolves around games, then by all means, you should get the kind of computer that you feel is best. If that is a PC running Windows, then that is what it should be.

 

3.) Here's a near myth: You lose productivity time on a PC compared to

a Mac because you don't have to spend time on a Mac running virus/malware

scanners. Well, this depends....while it's true that you should perform these

chores on a PC, it need not eat up precious time and take away from doing

other things.

I'm sorry, but this is not going to fly. Having to even think about viruses and spyware is a timewaster, and something I do not need to deal with on my Mac. Say what you will, you're still having to schedule time to deal with it, you have programs running in the background, you're having to work around the fact that you have to deal with this threat. I don't. I don't do ANYTHING. So you think it's not that big of an inconvenience? Well it seems that way to me, when compared to doing NOTHING.

 

Another so-called "advantage" Mac has over PC disspelled.

And of course if, as I aformentioned, Macs gain a bit in popularity, ( which they

won't ) then Macs users will eventually have to get use to this type of thing!!

Doing nothing is always an advantage over having to do something—or even having to think about doing something.

 

I hear all the time about people who got their PCs messed up due to some virus, or spyware. Sure, maybe they should have been more careful, maybe they should have kept up a routine and they didn't. So they were careless or foolish or lazy. They can be careless, foolish and lazy on a Mac, and (at least in this regard) it won't matter.

 

I'm setting up my extremely computer-phobic mom with a Mac. She's the kind of person who would quake in fear of ever catching a virus, even if the risk was not that great. Knowing that she's using a Mac and that there IS almost no risk is really the best way for her. She's happy and more relaxed with this knowledge. I do not want to do a lot tech support for my mom, and this is my best guarantee that I won't have to.

 

In conclusion, please spare us all of the smug "Macs are better" junk.

 

To each his own. I think Macs are better. My mom definitely thinks Macs are better. The virus fear thing would have been a deal-breaker for her if she were using a PC.

 

And in response to other posts: Say what you will, Macs run software that is an industry standard. Take Final Cut Pro. Yes, it is an industry standard. Moreso (I have been told) than Adobe Premiere or Sony Vegas. Avid is still the big name in the video editing industry, and it runs on both Mac and PC. The next big app is Final Cut Pro. This is why, I believe, many film schools require that their students use Final Cut. There's jobs to be had for people skilled in this application.

 

Sure, there's a lot of software available for Windows. But so much of it is just knock offs of each other, or is plain awful. I use my PC regularly too (as well as boot into the Windows side of my Mac) and it can be a chore to find something tolerable on the PC. Less so than on the Mac. At least with my Intel-based Mac, I have a choice—I can get a well-functioning app for the Mac, or go over to Windows and find something there.

 

Another thing—that ridiculous video makes it sound like there is NO software on the Mac. The major applications that I want to use (Photoshop, Dreamweaver, Final Cut Pro, Logic, Garageband, InDesign, Illustrator) are available for Mac or are Mac-only (in the case of FCP, Logic and Garageband).

 

Few of us feel like we are missing out. Why would we? We are usually well aware of what is available on the Windows side—a lot of us are familiar with Windows (may own a PC or work on one elsewhere). We now can have Windows on our Mac. Yet so many of us report that we don't turn on our PCs all that much anymore. If we lacked something on our Macs, we'd surely be using our PCs to fill the void, wouldn't we? But many of us are not finding that we constantly must turn to our PCs to get our work done. Perhaps we are far more of an authority on what Macs lack in the software department than you are.

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uh, could we have the cliffnotes version please? it's much easier when it's just a one-liner troll.

 

Uh, when does disagreeing with someone else qualify a person as a troll?

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uh, i didn't call you a troll

 

Ah, I see. Please forgive me for misunderstanding. I think you were meaning that it's better when someone dashes off a one-liner bit of nonsense, over someone who writes out a long post? ;)

 

Sorry, I had a lot of ground to cover since this is a rather lengthy thread. :)

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yeah, that's kinda what i meant. but i was also being sarcastic. there are too many trolling one-liners out here on the net, and not enough informed discussions.

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All those comparisons are fine and dandy and true, but some important items has been left out of that video. Compared to MAC - PCs' crash and burns and gets far more viruses and trojans the MAC ever will... Windows is a big virus trap has tons of holes to let all kinds of nasty people and bugs into your computer...Windows Vista is one big spy bot and memory hog... While I own a PC my sister has a MAC and I've been playing with it.

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Now boys, boys let's not get carried away here. Did you ever see someone cut off in traffic go into "rant mode"; cursing the person who cut them off - while the culprit keeps on driving unaware of the verbal barrage just leveled at him? To me the ranters in these cases essentially have turned over control of their minds to the offending agent and allowed them to make them act badly.

 

Well, that's what the PC/Apple battle reminds me of Much Ado about Nothing. I happen to like PC's; I like the flexibility that the large user base gives in terms of cost savings and choice on both hardware and software. I also have a quite powerful machine that will be even more fun when I get around to upgrading it to Windows XP x64. How much "power" does one really need anyway?

 

The man who handles the fine art print production part of my publishing business uses a Mac G-5 - he loves it - it cost me way too much for what we got, I would never buy it again, but it does what he wants in terms of image manipulation - not that my PC couldn't also. However, he has to use a PC for the RIP that sends the finished files though to the giclee printer because to write the RIP (Raster Image Processor) program that translates an RGB file to CMYK that a printer can understand for a MAC just won't happen with the compartively small user base. I would imagine that it is not just in the field of printing that highly refined, proprietary programs such as our RIP are only ever going to be written for PCs.

 

I felt the points made in the video were well taken - especially given the increasingly more irritating as time goes by ads Apple has been running. Apple is lucky the PC crowd doesn't counter their ad campaign; itwould be really easy to find more than enough "holes" in the Apple boat to sink it. Starting with you can buy two PCs for the price of one Mac and you aren't forced to buy it from a company that has no competition except itself.

 

Bottom line is, I don't care what you use - if you like it, and it works for you and it ain't broke - stick with it. Life is much too short to get hot about a chunk of metal that whether PC or Mac will in due course break down and screw up seveal days of your life. Last I checked there still were a few real and serious problems around for us to put our collective energies toward solving.

Edited by MuchAdoAbout...

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The processor is a 1.8 Ghz while the Mac is a 2.16 at minimum for the 20 inch--a comparison would add $100 to cost of the Dell raising it to $999.

 

Hi tolrodco

 

Not to put down your post at all, but this part needs some clarification.

The 1.8 clock processor in the Dell is also "Core 2", which means you have 2 seperate 1.8G processors that can each handle seperate threads, and has a UNIFIED L2 cache, so each core can access anything in the cache without having to go thru the FSB to get it anymore....much faster.

 

So the "virtual" (and also "actual) clock speed on the Dell is 3.6G's of processor clock....I think you need to do a re-comparison there because it does not compute properly anymore.

 

Also for the "Virus & Spyware" arguments...I've worked closely in the PC Security field for over 7 years and have testing new variants for some of the best known anti-malware apps around. I've worked closely with the developers and am active in the AV community. There is one very specific reason Macs don't see the amount of virus and nasties as PC's and that's strictly the NUMBERS game. No other reason. Bad guys want to Control your machine so they can use it in a unified attack with hundreds or thousands of other zombie machines. To find 1000 unprotected PC's in the 80 million out there, is rather simple....due unfortunately to the many PC users who simply "Plug in" and go whipping around opening every stupid thing they find...sorry, getting carried away here.

For a virus writer to find 1000 Macs (period) is difficult enough, since they'd have to scan at least 4,000,000 IP blocks to find 4 or 5 Macs in total. So it's simply not efficient for these writers to do any work on cracking the Mac. It takes allot of work to find new exploits and then code something stable enough to use that exploit while staying hidden is quite a task, so why waste time on a Mac. Plus finding them in the numbers you need to launch an effective attack is almost impossible, so why bother. But with Mac popularity growing, it's not going to stay like that so Mac users had better start thinking about Security very soon, or become a Victim of the hype.

Most PC virus are simply rehashes of other exploits, downloaded and spread by script kiddies who want a thrill but aren't smart enough to do it on their own. This is why there are so darn many of them out there...these kids want to make a name for themselvs within their little clique, so they d'load some exploit code, make a tiny adjustment to some part of it, and release it as a new variant on the world. It's so easy to do and the exploits are easily found on the Hacker sites, this is why so many PC exploits abound. When Mac's get popular enough to spawn this offshoot hacker community...watch out, because they'll come after you now and it'll take quite awhile for the Mac community to develop tools to stop it. Pc users are light years ahead in this regard.

 

There have been many "Proof of Concept" virus written for Mac's. There are easily as many holes in a Mac as there are in PC's, but because of the simple fact that it's a waste of time to write a Mac exploit, there are very few "In the Wild" Mac exploits. The comments by one Mac user that "He can BE lazy and careless..it doesn't matter with a Mac", is simply a stupid way to be on ANY Platform! As Macs get more popular, more exploits will be released and all these Lazy, careless Mac users are going to be hit like Wildfire as this exploit speeds thru all those unprotected Mac's...that will be ugly for those folks.

Good PC users know how to secure their machines so when new variants come out, they're pretty much buttoned up still, but Mac users are sooooo far behind in how to stay secure that they'll be vulnerable for many years after the bad guys start hitting Mac code as hard as they hit PC's now, until they learn the hard lessons us PC users have had to learn.

 

Dave

Edited by Chappy

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Not to put down your post at all, but this part needs some clarification.

The 1.8 clock processor in the Dell is also "Core 2", which means you have 2 seperate 1.8G processors that can each handle seperate threads, and has a UNIFIED L2 cache, so each core can access anything in the cache without having to go thru the FSB to get it anymore....much faster.

 

So the "virtual" (and also "actual) clock speed on the Dell is 3.6G's of processor clock....I think you need to do a re-comparison there because it does not compute properly anymore.

 

 

... which means that the 'virtual' and 'actual' clock on the Mac is 4.32Ghz, ne?

 

Even taking the OS out of the picture, actual 'Hardware to hardware' comparisons are much MUCH closer than the video lets on. When taking all aspects of the hardware, including video cards, networking cards and processors, the prices between any two manufacturers is almost identical.

 

Yes, when going for bottom-end so-called 'entry level' machines, you may have more expandability in a Windows machine, but comparing them for what they start with, you will still find them virtually the same.

 

As for a previous comment:

In conclusion, please spare us all of the smug "Macs are better" junk.

If Apple had to develop an OS that could run on the myriad combinations of

motherboards, chipsets, graphics cards, sound cards that Windows has already

conquered, then it would be big problems for Apple. As it is, they only have

to make due with a few proprietary Apple brand pieces of hardware, so of course

it's easy to get their OS to run reasonably well. This is not to mention all the drivers

that tell Windows how to work with all those myriads of hardware combinations.

Apple would be sunk if they had to do this. The fact that Windows runs pretty

well on so much diverse hardware attests to it's decent coding.

Maybe that's a reason WHY the Mac is less vulnerable to viruses. The more hardware you have to accomodate, the more likely you will have holes that can be exploited. The tighter control you have on the hardware, the harder it is to penetrate and do any damage. Oh, and Apple doesn't JUST use proprietary hardware. Surprisingly enough, a Mac can use almost any USB or Firewire device made without even having to install drivers! The driver disks that include Mac software are often just feature enhancements allowing the Mac to access new abilities in the hardware.

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