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cmunson

Hello Firefox, Goodbye Internet Explorer

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Tabbed browsers are nice in that you can minimize and maximize all at once, rather than 20 browsers separately. Tabs take some getting used to for some people, including myself, but after using them for a couple of years, I now prefer tabs. You can also open a browser for each topic that you're surfing and keep all related topics together, which is convenient.

 

RE the article:

I run a custom computer business and use the computer to surf the internet every day, mainly for reviews on new computer hardware/software technology. A big part of our business is removing malware, spyware and viruses from other people's computers. While the biggest problem seems to be spyware removal tool 'terrorists' (the ones that claim you have spyware on your computer and need to buy their software to remove it), most malware is not installed to your computer simply by opening a web page. Most of the time, they require clicking on a link or banner, or actually installing fake test software. FF is no more secure from these threats than IE7. I've removed trojans and malware from FF users as well as IE users over the past year.

 

I'm in the camp of IE7 users. I've never experienced the author's popups over text with IE7. I've never had an issue with security with IE7. I've also never had a virus or malware through a website with any browser. But then I also usually know what NOT to click on. I use PestPatrol 4 (which deletes cookies on the fly, too bad they don't sell it anymore) and AVG Network Edition 7.5.

 

One thing I do a lot on the internet is save pictures, files, programs, etc.. What no one has mentioned about FF is the completely annoying file saving popup. Once started, it continues to run in the backround. It requires that you manually remove the files from the list, but lord help you if you accidentally hit delete. That alone is enough to keep me from ever using it consistently. Every time FF comes out with a new version I give it a test drive. So far there's nothing very impressive about FF to me. FF also has some serious compatibility issues with Vista.

 

I'm not going to change anyone's mind who likes FF and visa versa. However I thought my experiences were worth noting for those considering updating to either FF or IE7.

 

The best browser is the browser that you're most comfortable with. Security is dependent upon the user's knowledge, as no browser will ever protect users completely from ignorance. :)

 

 

I have tested Firefox in Vista and have found no compatibility issues. Care to elaborate what compatibility issue's?

 

As for the pop ups you talk about I have never seen one, if they are the "biggest" problem why is I have never even seen one?

 

It's kind of silly to complain about the way the browser behaves on such things like downloads, you should look at the settings. It is easily changed.

 

A big part of our business is removing malware, spyware and viruses from other people's computers.

"It is difficult to get a man to understand something when his salary depends on his not understanding it."

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I to used Firefox and still stay with Internet Explorer. The problem with any other browser is they are not installed with the current operating system from Microsoft and so that is the first real issue of solid compatibility, which for example is why I do not use anything Apple on my Windows machine. And yes, Microsoft does have the right and the privelege to make it's products work better with their own system. Also, 9 times out of 10, crashes are because of the user, NOT the program's operating system and browser. Finally, Firefox still and never will be able to fully act like Active X, because it is NOT and never will be TRUE ACTIVE X, which is created and patented by Microsoft. I have the setting to manually accept all Active X controls so a hacker cannot access my computer using a virus Active X control. BUT most programs that I have found need to have an Active X control installed. The problem you had was your fault and NOT the browser I can assure you. People need to quit blaming Microsoft for everything and point the finger back at themselves first and foremost. Also, mistakes can happen from overheating with the computer being on too long, or the graphics card is too powerful for the older computer so it also can cause overheating. Plus, not having a high enough wattage power supply to support the card in the first place is another example. Heat, dust, mismatched programs can all be culprits. Microsoft holds all the cards and they have more support and more patented programs that do not work well with other programs because those other programs are first of all not necessary or superior and can cause conflicts with other programs like Apple codecs and their inferior products can do. I have tried Firefox, Netscape, Opera and other browsers and all other operating systems and they pail in comparison to the usability, scalability, convenience, power and support of Micsoroft and Windows. I do not care what anyone says, shows me or tells me because I have seen, read and studied all of that to. This stupid argument will go on forever, but then why after using computers since I was 8 years old, now being 37, do I still choose Microsoft? Read the above.

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Wow you are an impressive person. I have tested a boat load of operating systems, more then I can remember, and have never managed to "test all operating systems". That is an impressive feat. One that I don't think I have ever seen anyone accomplish before.

 

I bow down to your prowess. :laughing::rofl2:

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I have to agree wholeheartedly with your assessment of Firefox. Internet Explorer 7, though having the capabilities of tabs, is not user friendly and at times frustrating. I have used Firefox from time to time and for one reason or another ended up deleting it in favor of another.

 

I currently have Firefox 2.0 installed and since examining its new or improved capabilities I have made it my main browser. Of course I still have to use Intenet Explorer for certain web sites because their site is primarily designed for it, but Firefox simply is the browser to use.

 

The addons and themes are absolutely a big plus for users and allows us to determine how we want to use the browser and how we want it to look. IE 7 though coming through with some improvements still misses the boat and your assessment of the improvements lag makes it even more evident that Firefox is the number one browser.

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Nope certainly not perfect, but it has been updated to fix that. ;)

 

2007.01.19 "/" bug sent

2007.01.19 answer from Mozilla

 

FireFox updated on the 23rd to fix the problem

 

Pretty damn close to perfect :lol:

 

It sure beats the hell out of the typical Microsoft reply of we are looking into the issue, then 3 months later saying it isn't a big enough issue to fix, then 3 months after that saying they are considering a fix, then 3 months after that putting out a patch because not only did it turn out to be big issue, but it caused havoc on millions and millions of computers. That is of course if they actually do create a patch rather then contimnuing to ignore as they so often do. :P

 

Security issues rear their ugly head in every piece of software or OS there is. It is the speed at which things are fixed that is the issue. :tup:

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I to[too] used Firefox and still stay with Internet Explorer. The problem with any other browser is they are not installed with the current operating system from Microsoft and so that is the first real issue of solid compatibility, which for example is why I do not use anything Apple on my Windows machine. And yes, Microsoft does have the right and the privelege to make it's products work better with their own system. Also, 9 times out of 10, crashes are because of the user, NOT the program's operating system and browser. Finally, Firefox still and never will be able to fully act like Active X, because it is NOT and never will be TRUE ACTIVE X, which is created and patented by Microsoft. I have the setting to manually accept all Active X controls so a hacker cannot access my computer using a virus Active X control. BUT most programs that I have found need to have an Active X control installed. The problem you had was your fault and NOT the browser I can assure you. People need to quit blaming Microsoft for everything and point the finger back at themselves first and foremost. Also, mistakes can happen from overheating with the computer being on too long, or the graphics card is too powerful for the older computer so it also can cause overheating. Plus, not having a high enough wattage power supply to support the card in the first place is another example. Heat, dust, mismatched programs can all be culprits. Microsoft holds all the cards and they have more support and more patented programs that do not work well with other programs because those other programs are first of all not necessary or superior and can cause conflicts with other programs like Apple codecs and their inferior products can do. I have tried Firefox, Netscape, Opera and other browsers and all other operating systems and they pail [that's pale] in comparison to the usability, scalability, convenience, power and support of Micsoroft and Windows. I do not care what anyone says, shows me or tells me because I have seen, read and studied all of that to[too]. This stupid argument will go on forever, but then why after using computers since I was 8 years old, now being 37, do I still choose Microsoft? Read the above.

 

pail is a bucket, where indicated too should be used in lieu of to, go back to your basic English and lookup to, too and two. pail vs pale...

Firefox does not work on some programs, IE has to be used.

Edited by davidkhays

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I have tested Firefox in Vista and have found no compatibility issues. Care to elaborate what compatibility issue's?

 

As for the pop ups you talk about I have never seen one, if they are the "biggest" problem why is I have never even seen one?

 

It's kind of silly to complain about the way the browser behaves on such things like downloads, you should look at the settings. It is easily changed.

"It is difficult to get a man to understand something when his salary depends on his not understanding it."

 

issues not issue's

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pail is a bucket, where indicated too should be used in lieu of to, go back to your basic English and lookup to, too and two. pail vs pale...

Firefox does not work on some programs, IE has to be used.

 

In case you hadn't realised it davidkhays, this is meant to be User Forum, where users discuss the topic in question, which in this case is Firefox v Internet Explorer. It is not an English Language test to be corrected by members of the SGB (spelling and grammar brigade)!!! But if you have a genuine desire to help others improve their literacy rather than just a desire to feel superior, I suggest that you look out for a Literacy or English Language Forum and post your spelling and grammar lessons on there!

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:thud:

 

Alright, who let the grammer police in?

 

(Yes, I misspelled "grammar" on purpose. At least Fire Fox has a built in spell checker.)

 

It musta bin sumun wid a comple........cimple............cample........ah hell notin much ta say. :P

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It musta bin sumun wid a comple........cimple............cample........ah hell notin much ta say. :P

 

I think you may have hit the nail right on the head there Bruce! Wo ta nars hole ay!! Sad though really, isn't it? :rofl2::rofl2::rofl2:

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I develop complex webpages, and I find Firefox a real nuisance. Firefox 2.0.0.2 support for JavaScript control over CSS is abysmally poor. My really cool JavaScript animations of page objects do not work on Firefox. And for the life of me, I cannot get padding-left or margins-left to work on list items even if wrapped in a div. :cr@sh: I remember going through this same kind of thing with MSIE and Navigator in the early days. But it's ten years later now, and there's no excuse for having major issues with standards.

 

The only support that matters to me is actual support. First, the standards support I expect is not there. And when I check Mozilla links for references to CSS and JavaScript support, they conveniently do not mention what they CAN NOT do. :thud: So, the fact is, they do not implement standards nearly as well as MSIE. And, "non-profit" notwithstanding, they don't have the professionalism to admit it. Mind you, I'm not talking about some proprietary Microsoft technology; I'm talking about CSS and JavaScript. Furthermore, as a website developer, I cannot just change a setting on my browser: it's not my browser; it's the customer's PC. (Most of my work is for Intranets where MSIE typically is mandatory for IT reasons. My current clients need an Extranet site where customer browsers are indeterminable.)

 

MSIE 7.0 Kicks Butt! I love it. However, this is irrelevant to my clients. If anyone has a good links of supported vs not-supported CSS and DHTML for current browsers, I would appreciate your mentioning where to look.

 

Many of us continue to watch the Power Cult of Microsoft Haters. Hitler perfected the Power Cult: it is designating an enemy for the masses to focus on — like Jews or Gay Marriage — so you won't notice "they got nothin'." A more positive approach to living is possible, but, all too often, the choice to have enemies rather than friends prevails. An it bespeaks the truth about who we are... or, about who you are. Face it: you just want to criticize and complain about Microsoft. That is your only real agenda.

 

:geezer: Make your own meals and quit crybabying about McDonalds. ;) No one is making you eat there!

 

I remember when PC PitStop was cleaner and plainer and more simply helpful. Fewer ads, and certainly no misleading teasers. Maybe it's time to add value. Real value for real PC TechnoGeeks, not sleazy come-ons and TechnoHate. Frankly, I am surprised the Pit can maintain critical mass with the current marketing approach.

 

Ciao,

 

Jim

 

 

 

 

:thud:

 

Alright, who let the grammer police in?

 

(Yes, I misspelled "grammar" on purpose. At least Fire Fox has a built in spell checker.)

 

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Maybe you should post in the website section of the forums to get help with your web page coding skills.

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There are a lot of CSS and Javascript that IE doesn't support. It is very good at supporting their own brand of "features" that are proprietary though. Granted some of these are cool (not talking about ActiveX). Historically, Microsoft has always looked at standards and then decided to do something else. This applies through their software products, not just IE.

 

If you want to talk about compatibility nightmares, then Netscape Navigator takes the cake. For a while, some "newer" versions were not backwards compatible with previous versions in terms of what they supported.

 

JimRodgers, since you quoted me in your post, I assume it was directed at me? I too have been a web developer for the past 13 years. I understand your concerns with Fire Fox. There really hasn't been a very serious competitor to IE since Netscape faded away. Fire Fox is an alternative to IE. Sure, there are some people who would like to cram it down everyone's throat, but then again that could be said about IE. I'm not a Microsoft hater or basher. I like choices. Choices drive innovation, and in some cases, drive prices down. A look at the CPU market as a good example.

 

As far as ads on the site, well, Fire Fox has many extensions, one of those being ad blocker. You can put the url (just domain name) of the ads to block and then the ads don't show up. Does IE 7 have anything like that?

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YOUR --> YOU'RE for "you are"! I can't believe the many times I see this wrong word usage.

 

i cant believe how many times you have posted to correct spelling :blink:

 

i do not need your help, i will spell the way i want to :whistling:

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I remember when I got my first computer. It had Windows 3.1 on it and IE. When it was time for a newer computer, a 486, I decided to try out Netscape. That turned out nicely. Then it was eventually time to get into the Pentiums. Eventually, Netscape wasn't as good anymore. I switched to Avant. A couple years later or so, Avant became bloatware. I had to switch to something else, but wasn't sure what. I tried Opera; didn't like it. I wanted something simple and small. Firefox was it.

 

To this day, I still use Firefox. I only use 1.5, as 2.0 seems to be more fuss and feathers than I really need. I love the tabs and the ability to save them where they are instead of bookmarking them like crazy. In my opinion *I do not need a debate nor am I trying to cram anything down anybody's throat* I feel that Firefox is superior to IE. Sure, some sites stupidly require IE. I use IE 6 for those via IE View or other similar extensions. IE7 does not work for me at all and I'm too disenchanted with IE to bother with it. IE has never followed web standards very well and I find that Firefox is better at how it renders websites and blogs. It even renders email better. It also does something else IE can't even compete with. Firefox's accessibility features are sensible and easy to control and use. IE's accessibility features are always buggy and aren't easy to use nor control; some of the features you have to PAY for to use!

 

It looks like my favourite antivirus/technical help website, PC Pitstop *here, that is* has finally become Firefox compatible. I'm happy about that. My only question is... why did it take so long?

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Well, yes. Of course, you're right. I just was back from the debugger to check my mail when I saw the headline about Firefox replacing MSIE. And I thought, "let's hope not." Then the fatigue got to me. I went on a rant. :blink: Wrong! Some of us never learn. I don't have the energy for conflicts anymore, so why start one?

 

Choices have many nice side effects and few bad ones. I was just :filtered:ing and complaining about having to do real work adding Firefox support to my personal library of Intranet widgets and gadgets. Whose problem is that? Now I'm wondering about Opera and Navigator.

 

As far as who complies best with certain standards -- I admit I can't ever be sure, and the facts are constantly shifting. Since I try things on MSIE until I get it to work, perhaps it's not fair to say Firefox is worse. However, it seems a lot easier to get things working on MSIE. Also, the kinds of issues I had with Firefox seemed kind of major. So I had reason to be cranky when I wrote that note. And I don't know why I lashed out at Pitstop. I've gotten nothing but free lunch from those guys for years. I really did not get enough sleep the night before, you know.

 

Sincerely...

 

 

There are a lot of CSS and Javascript that IE doesn't support. It is very good at supporting their own brand of "features" that are proprietary though. Granted some of these are cool (not talking about ActiveX). Historically, Microsoft has always looked at standards and then decided to do something else. This applies through their software products, not just IE.

 

If you want to talk about compatibility nightmares, then Netscape Navigator takes the cake. For a while, some "newer" versions were not backwards compatible with previous versions in terms of what they supported.

 

JimRodgers, since you quoted me in your post, I assume it was directed at me? I too have been a web developer for the past 13 years. I understand your concerns with Fire Fox. There really hasn't been a very serious competitor to IE since Netscape faded away. Fire Fox is an alternative to IE. Sure, there are some people who would like to cram it down everyone's throat, but then again that could be said about IE. I'm not a Microsoft hater or basher. I like choices. Choices drive innovation, and in some cases, drive prices down. A look at the CPU market as a good example.

 

As far as ads on the site, well, Fire Fox has many extensions, one of those being ad blocker. You can put the url (just domain name) of the ads to block and then the ads don't show up. Does IE 7 have anything like that?

 

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