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Bruce

Dells sagging sales

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How many will they sell?

 

Thats depends on a number of things.

 

1) That unlike in the past they don't make them more expensive the the windows computers they sell. People simply will not pay more for a Linux computer then they will for a Windows computer. It's a slap in the face to be charged more for something that costs less.

 

2) They have to offer a wide variety of machines, printers and especially laptops

 

3) They have make it an easy option to find on their site, in other words not hidden away in the workstation/server section of their site.

 

4) They have to support what they sell. In other words Indian phone tech people reading from a predefined set of scripts ain't gonna cut it :lol:

 

5) This is the most important one of all. IBM, Nvidia, Hauppauge and HP are a few companies who understand this one. Dell can't rely solely on the open source community to develop drivers for their computers, and peripherals, they will have to help out by creating quality drivers and contribute back to the community.

 

IBM, Nvidia, Hauppauge and HP do an outstanding job in that area. As a result people use their equipment. There is no denying when people start asking about Linux and compatible hardware/peripherals, those names will always be the most highly recommended. They are the most highly recommended because their stuff works, and works with full functions and that is because those companies go the extra mile to produce quality products and outstanding drivers for those products.

 

Dell won't go that far. They will expect Novell/SuSE or who ever to submit a list of hardware/computers that work, and it will end there. In other words they will expect others to tell them what works and what doesn't, and rather then create drivers for what doesn't work, they will offer probably 1/3 of the stuff that does work.

 

Perfect example, I know they won't create drivers for the re-branded Lexmark junk they call "printers". So people won't be able to buy the same fully functioning system or package offer that others can get. Unless they create drivers for the Lexmark junk, or push Lexmark to create the drivers, then they would have to sell a competing companies equipment to offer a fully functioning package deal.

 

So the question of how many will they sell all depends on Dell. It does not depend on the consumer as much as they would like to think. People don't want half baked, expensive solutions that don't work well. They don't want low end junk hardware at a premium price. They don't want an all in one printer/scanner/copier that only prints with postscript drivers and can't scan/copy.

 

Would people buy computers from Dell? Of course they would, but only if Dell is willing to work as hard to make a quality product for Linux as they do for other companies.

 

HP, IBM, hauppauge, AMD, Nvidia, are just a few who understand this. They have been working "with" the open source community or doing the work themselves to make sure they build quality components that work.

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S

 

Doublespeak, FUD, avoidance of the number one request, in favor of lesser requests because those lesser requests deal with "Microsoft" Windows.

 

You only need go back to see that I said they would do exactly what they are doing.

 

Blowing hot air up the :filtered: of the open source community.

 

The difference is, average folks in the open source community are not as gullible as the average folks in the Windows based community. We don't listen to the "marketing" garbage, we see it for what it is, and keep pressing our case. Because in the end, all the marketing, and blowing of hot air is just that, and it amounts to nothing.

 

 

 

Speaking of FUD...this arriaved in my mailbox today...sheesh!!

http://www.microsoft.com/windowsserver/facts/default.mspx

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Would people buy computers from Dell? Of course they would, but only if Dell is willing to work as hard to make a quality product for Linux as they do for other companies.

 

HP, IBM, hauppauge, AMD, Nvidia, are just a few who understand this. They have been working "with" the open source community or doing the work themselves to make sure they build quality components that work.

 

 

I see.

 

So how many Linux preloaded PCs and laptops does HP sell then?

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I am talking about their printer, scanner and business machine drivers.

 

How many computers they sell I am not sure.

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I didn't ask how many computers they sell.

 

You didn't?

 

Well then what does this say?

 

So how many Linux preloaded PCs and laptops does HP sell then?

 

If that isn't asking how many computers they sell then ummmmmmmmmmmmm then what the hell is it? :rofl3:

 

Last I knew, laptops and PC's were computers :rolleyes:

Edited by Bruce

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You didn't?

 

Well then what does this say?

If that isn't asking how many computers they sell then ummmmmmmmmmmmm then what the hell is it? :rofl3:

 

Last I knew, laptops and PC's were computers :rolleyes:

 

 

Clearly I asked how many Linux preloaded PC and laptops they sell. A very different matter.

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Didn't I say already I am talking about their printer, scanner and business machine drivers.

 

How many computers they sell I am not sure.

 

Here this is a "nit" for you to pick

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Bruce's first line from his first post:

 

Interesting isn't it that of all the requests they get, pre-installed Linux is at the top of the list

 

You were saying?

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Yep thats Dells web site.

 

HP didn't make the site.

 

Dude you been smokin somethin this morning?

 

But if you must try an divert the topic to HP, then I will say this.

 

HP employs 2500 Linux developers in the Untied States and 6500 world wide, they have open sourced 100 plus applications and created drivers and have created fully functional drivers and software for more then 1000 of their printers.

 

Trust me you really don't want to compare the two :lol: when it comes to their commitment to open source software, projects and code.

 

They are even one of the top 15 contributers/developers of the Linux kernel.

 

Dell on the other hand is clueless, has no direction, and created a web site asking "what should we do" because they simply haven't a clue what to do and how to rescue their company from failure. :laughing:

Edited by Bruce

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Yes, trust me, I do want to compare the two. They are very differnet companies. Next you will wish to point out the higher number of patent applications per month by HP. Has nothing to do with anything.

 

 

The number of Linux developers they employ has nothing to do with it either. Nor their open source releases.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Is Dell clueless? No. Do thay have a serious problem with their direction? Obviously.

 

 

 

HP is the printer company...of course they develop their own Linux drivers. Heck, their technology is at the core of all the other major printer manufacturers.

 

I wouldn't use a Dell printer in the enterprise setting if they gave it to me...and they did in fact. I just gave them away.

 

 

 

Enough about printers already. Buy an HP. Period. If you need big production level printing/scanning etc then there are other choices....but for general printer needs...buy an HP and be done with it.

 

I have sitting here in my office an HP 2300dtn, a 2200dtn, a 6mp, 6100c with ADF, and a Laserjet 1010 in my daughter's room. All those are set up and working. If you think I don't like HP you're mad.

 

 

 

So...how many Linux preloaded PCs and laptops does HP sell?

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Because you apparently can't read, refuse to read I will type it reeeeaaallllyyyy sssslllloooowwwwwlllllyyyy fooooorrrrrr yyyoooouuuu.

 

Iiiiiiiiiiiiii dooooooonnnnnnn'ttttttt knnnnnnnooooowwwww

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Well, I will tell you then:

 

HP sells zero consumer PCs or laptops with Linux preloaded.

 

 

Here is what I consider an interesting and balanced perspective on the matter of Linux and the major PC vendors:

http://www.internetnews.com/reporters_note...cle.php/3662641

 

 

 

 

 

And another:

 

Though HP doesn't offer a specific SKU of a notebook or desktop PC preloaded with Linux, several of its notebooks are certified to work with Novell's SUSE Linux Enterprise Desktop 10 operating system and with Red Hat Linux. The Palo Alto, Calif., IT giant also provides Linux-loaded PCs for custom orders, such as large enterprise deals.

 

 

 

 

I like this ZDNet comment:

HP offers Linux support. WHY? They won't sell Linux preloaded products

This means little to most of us. Claimed support for a product that you don't provide is at best only a marketing tactic. They don't sell to individuals without requiring Microsoft products be installed and paid for. They refused to provide peripherals that are controller based and include their own processor such as a real modem, or NIC with certification of functionality.

 

Class this as MARKETING HYPE.

 

http://talkback.zdnet.com/5208-3513-0.html...10&start=-1

HP has preloaded PCs with Linux in previous years, but the market acceptance wasn't there to do that on a broader scale, according to Small. "Frankly, we did that in the past and didn't see the results for it," he said.

http://www.crn.com/hardware/197800591

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Well HP didn't create a website, asking what it should do, Dell did that, HP is apparently comfortable in the products and services it offers.

 

This thread is about Dell and the site it created, and what it will do about the responses it got.

 

If and when they learn to do more then just slap together a bunch of parts or rebadge others products, load up windows and a pile of trial applications then they might actually begin to have a clue.

 

It is the kind of involvement and hard work that others are doing that is making them the best in their perspective markets.

 

HP printers and peripherals, AMD and their dual core processors were first supported in Linux because of the work AMD did with developers, Intel is constantly worjking to keep their products working in Linux, Nvidia and their outstanding products and drivers...................................

 

As you previously stated printers are HP's bread an butter, they support Linux on their bread and butter, Nvidia, well video cards :lol: Nothing is better supported, AMD, Intel..............

 

So now we have "Dell", and their bread and butter is? Well it is computers, yet they seem not to want to follow suit in the other major players in the industry.

 

Dell, well they want, ummmm, they want................ummmm they want everyone else to do the work, create the hardware, the drivers, the software...........they want to profit from everyone elses hard work.

 

Is there something wrong with that? No there isn't. But as they are now finding out, that mind set will only take you so far, then you start sliding down the slope, and keep bumping into all those people and companies you didn't want to work with.

 

I do believe Dell will survive, but they are far behind their competition, I ain't talking about the stock market, I am talking about technology, innovation, fresh ideas, and how to stay competitive in an ever growing diversified market.

 

The biggest problem dell will have with Linux is this. Although many thousands and thousands of people have requested Linux pre-installed, Dell will not receive that warm of a welcome from developers, because Dell doesn't want to do any work, they don't want to get "involved". They just want to bundle something up and say here it is. It will never work that way.

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You brought HP into the discussion in a big way.

 

http://forums.pcpitstop.com/index.php?s=&a...t&p=1331905

 

Don't blame me.

 

 

Hp tried exactly what you are saying Dell should do, Linux preloads....and failed.

 

You believe Dell will survive? No kidding.

 

 

Frankly, the biggest problem that Dell, and in fact HP, has with Linux is the Linux community itself. The people posting suggestions on that website aren't potential customers of Linux preloaded on any brand of PC...and you, me, and Dell all know that. They aren't requesting it for themselves, they are requesting it in general as a matter of principle.

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Well you would be wrong there, because if in fact you new what exactly people were using for computers in the Linux community then you would know that most of the common questions about hardware are with their Dells, and HP's, Acers and Sony Viao's.................. Would they love to be able to buy them pre-loaded they sure would. Times have changed, things change rapidly in the open source world and openSUSE/SLED 10 has made people take notice.

 

A for what HP is doing, well I believe they will beat Dell to the punch on this one. Why? because they already have a strong foothold, and they are poised to do it anytime they want, as a matter of fact that is exactly what they are going to do. :lol:

 

 

Hewlett-Packard is closing custom deals for thousands of desktop PCs running Linux, which has the company assessing the possibility of offering factory-loaded Linux systems, an HP executive said.

 

"We are involved in a number of massive deals for Linux desktops, and those are the kinds of things that are indicators of critical mass. So we are really looking at it very hard," said Doug Small, worldwide director of open source and Linux marketing at HP. "We are in a massive deal right now for ... multi-thousands of units of a desktop opportunity for Linux. That's an indicator." He declined to give details about the Linux deals.

 

 

http://www.crn.com/hardware/197800591

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Well you would be wrong there, because if in fact you new what exactly people were using for computers in the Linux community then you would know that most of the common questions about hardware are with their Dells, and HP's, Acers and Sony Viao's

No! You mean they use the same PCs as everybody else! Really?! WOW!

 

So the people in the Linux "Community" are willing to pay HP...Dell...whoever...to load Linux for them?

 

Wow. That surprises me...since I wouldn't pay them for it myself. But then again, maybe I am not part of this Linux "Community". How can I join? How many PCs and Laptops do I need to have Linux on? How many distros do I need to have loaded? Is there a fee? Where do I send it? To you?

 

Gee....Ubuntu just sent me five CDs without ever checking my Community Membership..... :unsure: Should I be afraid? Will they come and get me? Should I wipe it off the two drives I put it on?

 

Gee...people in The Community are using Dell...HP...Acer....etc...... and they ask questions about this stuff? :huh:

 

 

Oh come on now Bruce.

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No...now I will be......

 

 

Bruce:

 

11:48am Sat Aug 19 2006 Post #19

 

HP, IBM, Dell, Monarch, Penguin PC, and numerous others all have Linux options.

 

 

:P;)

 

:b33r::b33r:

Edited by Chopdoc

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Why wouldn't people be willing to pay for Linux?

 

I paid £50 for OpenSUSE, average users will probably want a number to call so they can learn how to set up email etc.

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Frankly, the biggest problem that Dell, and in fact HP, has with Linux is the Linux community itself. The people posting suggestions on that website aren't potential customers of Linux preloaded on any brand of PC...and you, me, and Dell all know that. They aren't requesting it for themselves, they are requesting it in general as a matter of principle.

 

It's a bit of a Catch 22. If they (the vendors) don't support Linux, then why would anyone using Linux buy one?

 

Also, if they offered Linux, even if it was just on every available "corporate" computer (as opposed to home computers), then I think they may have a chance of selling them. How many people who use Linux have influence on what their company purchases?

 

Personally, I'd be happy if they just sold the computer without an operating system, and adjust the price accordingly. I think they may have done that in the past. I remember reading somewhere that Microsoft screamed that it increased software piracy.

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They really should offer any and every PC, server, and notebook without an OS. One of the problems is advertising though. MS pays a good chunk of their advertising in return for being included in the advert. That won't happen with Linux. Then all people see on TV and in magazines is PCs with Windows.

 

 

Dell actually did offer any and all of its PCs, servers and laptops with no OS. It was easy, you just clicked a box when ordering and the price was adjusted appropriately. I was amazed when they stopped.

 

 

The corporate route could help....but we really need Linux PCs on the shelves at retailers and a one click Linux option for online sales. Sure, Linux geeks influence the purchases where they work....but they also have to deal with all the myriad hardware and software vendors that are MS "partners" in their particular industry that already have a stranglehold on them. It can really balloon the innitial cost of a Linux rollout since you will end up bearing the cost of the integration yourself on a platform that your other vendors will refuse to support. On top of the cost it's just a triangulated buttload of work....I know...I did it....and I swam upstream the whole way with some of our software vendors that we could just not walk away from as we had heavily bought into them over the course of years before I even got there.

 

The Linux community needs to find a way to make Linux a household name. Heck, I am poor, and I would chip in some cash if people woll pool together resources for a real Linux marketing push. Forget Dell, HP and any of the others....advertise Linux. Make it as American as napalm and apple pie. Forget the distro...forget the whole "alternative" thing....make Linux et al THE thing.

 

That I would LOVE.

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Maybe you guys are refering to someone else but Monarch Computer is out of business.

"HP, IBM, Dell, Monarch, Penguin PC, and numerous others all have Linux options."

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