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Bruce

Dells sagging sales

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i think we also need to realize here that most the people going to that site are already rather involved in computers and know what linux is. obviously the majority of the people that get a dell because they hardly know how to use a computer aren't surfing the net looking for a way to suggest linux being used instead.

 

we just had to make a service call to a friend the other day because his printer wasn't working... he unplugged it when he jamed it and only pluged the usb plug back in because he didn't know/forgot that there was a power cable.

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:funny:

 

I had a service call once before for the exact same thing. $75 dollars to go to his house to fix the problem of printer not working, plugged it in, collected my money and laughed all theway home.

 

*Because anyone can buy a computer..............does not mean everyone should*

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Dell was one of those big box computer mfg's. that sold their soul to Microsoft when they agreed to install Windows and never let a computer leave the factory without an o/s installed.

 

 

 

 

Where does this crap come from?

 

Dell's have the option to come any way you want...including without an OS.

Edited by Chopdoc

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I would imagine Novells SLED, and RedHat would be the best options, however RedHat isn't a "desktop" company. Novell on the other hand is focusing very hard on the desktop with it's SLED products and openSUSE.

 

SLED = SuSE Linux Enterprise Desktop

 

Novells SLED offers real support, where openSUSE only offers installation support.

 

If Dell wants to have support for an OS on their desktop Novell would be the wise choice.

 

 

I would suggest Ubuntu.

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When I bought my Dell laptop last year, the first thing I did was a complete re-install of the OS. I wish Dell would have given me the option to save the money I had to spend for the OS that I didn't use.

 

 

They did offer you the option if you bought it directly from Dell. You must not have been paying attention.

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No OS Preloaded

 

submitted by agreer Feb 17

 

I have a XP Pro retail copy, will soon buy retail vista, I also like Linux: Make WINDOWS-FREE, and OS-Free an option for more than just expensive business lines...let me get that cheap-o $500 dimension without Windows...please!

 

http://www.dellideastorm.com/

 

 

 

I wouldn't brag too much about the suggestions on that web site....obviously many of them are not well informed.

 

The poster does not know that he can buy a Dell without an OS...... :blink:

 

 

 

In the end...is anybody really surprised at the suggestions anyway? I bet Dell isn't.

 

Now that Michael Dell is back in charge I think we will actually see many of these (the valid suggestions, obviously some of them are already reality) things come to fruition.

 

 

People were saying Dell would NEVER sell AMD not all that long ago...yet now they do. People were saying Dell would NEVER sell Linux preloaded...even while they actually were already doing it.

 

 

 

HP is a very different company with a very different marketing model and their own problems. In the end sales is the only measure of any business and they are doing better than Dell right now...I have a feeling that will change though....

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Dell was not selling a "desktop" Linux distribution on it's main stream desktop and laptops. Not servers running Enterprise distributions :lol:

 

Linux operating system. Dell offers a wide range of innovative Linux solutions, including the latest from Red Hat® and Novell® SUSE® running on Dell PowerEdgeTM servers and Dell/EMC storage.

People are asking for openSUSE, Ubuntu, Fedora, and "multiboot" systems.

 

Dell does not make it readily obvious that any other option exists at all.

 

That is not the point, and before I would hop in and say people are uninformed, as if it were their fault for some reason I would recommend you go back and read what it is the people are asking for.

 

Then consider the fact that if for some reason they are uninformed, that the fault lies in the lack of information that Dell supplies. ;)

 

From the Dell Linux page, you click on say for instance "notebooks and you are presented with this. Mind you this is a direct link from their "Linux" page.

 

The open-source n Series notebooks feature select popular models from the LatitudeTM line available with a copy of the FreeDOSTM open-source operating system included in the box, ready to install.

So saying people are uninformed is just wrong, I would say they are as informed as Dell wants them to be. Please tell me when I am at the Dell Linux page what getting "freeDOS" has to do with anything, and how it is relevant to a fully functioning main stream Linux desktop solution?

 

They don't go looking for data center enterprise solutions they go looking for desktop and laptop solutions and options. But instead find freeDOS. :huh::blink:

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Actually, yes, Dell has been selling Linux preinstalled on the desktop in Europe for a couple years.

 

As for some people being uninformed...well...all you have to do is read what they are saying. Some are indeed asking for things that Dell already provides. That it isn't "readily obvious" is a matter of Dell's marketing as you say...but that is a far cry from them not offering it at all.

 

Do you deny that Dell offers (and has so for a long time) PCs with no OS installed? They will also simply supply the disks for windows...or in fact Linux...so you can install it yourself.

 

I have read what people are asking for. I ask for some of the same things. But obviously we need not ask for those things that are already provided. That is a simple matter.

 

You use qualifiers like "mainstream" etc to sidestep the facts. I understand this. So their "mainstream" stuff has yet to reflect some market requirements. The market requirements (reflected in the suggestions on that website) aren't exactly mainstream themselves.

 

I am well familiar with Dell's websites and know of what you speak regarding freeDOS. Obviously they are just hedging things to generate content.

 

I have to ask...do you doubt that Dell will offer Linux on notebooks?

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Nope I don't doubt it. I am saying they currently don't ;)

 

As for what they offer pre-installed with Linux. Sorry but Redhat Enterprise server on three very expensive workstations is not main stream in any way shape or form.

 

If you think that is what people are looking for then I have to say, you ain't got a clue.

 

The thread is about what people on dells site are asking for, and they do not in any way shape or form provide a single thing that the 3 top requests are.

 

Trust me when I say that dell offering Linspire in Europe is neither, what people want, or a "mainstream" Linux desktop solution.

 

Linspire might like to think it is, and dell probably thinks it is, however it is not what people want, it is not what people use, and it is about the absolute worse Linux distribution available.

 

 

Many people have invested themselves in the Microsoft economy and the monopoly profits on which it's based , and these people fear Linux. Fear leads to muddied analysis and very bad assumptions.

Edited by Bruce

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Many people have invested themselves in the Microsoft economy and the monopoly profits on which it's based , and these people fear Linux. Fear leads to muddied analysis and very bad assumptions.

 

 

The top three requests?

 

No, not the top three. Sorry, I read further than that.

 

As for fear...yes, many people and entities are heavily invested in the Microsoft economy. Of course that makes any competition with MS an uncomfortable idea for them. Do you feel that is the case with Dell? I don't. A lot of people thought that was the case with Dell and AMD....that was proven wrong....

 

Is Dell providing what people are looking for? Well...they are no longer number one...so they have slipped in that department...but they are number two...so they certainly are satisfying a lot of what people are looking for...in fact a whole lot.

 

Whether or not you like Linspire (I don't either) isn't the point. The point is that they have been offering it.

 

There is a market, Dell may be slow in addressing it in the last few years and may have screwed up in their direction with their marketing and product development....but I think that is temporary.

 

Obviously people are making it clear what they want. I think they will get it.

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Offering Linspire to people asking for openSuSE, and or Ubuntu is like handing a pink grapefruit to someone who wants to buy sweet dark chocolate :rofl3:

 

The problem with OEM's like Dell or any other for that matter is they want to support one system, not two, or three........................and they want a high turn over on how often operating systems are released.

 

They depend on new OS's to boost their sales, however when they move to the new OS's they would prefer not to support the older ones.

 

In other words OEM's like Dell, HP............would prefer when MS releases a new OS that they would kill off the old one, this of course would make their job 100 times easier when it came to hardware support and technical support. They are after all in the business of selling hardware, and they would love nothing more then to go back to the days when Microsoft was releasing a new OS every two or three years, because that always and invariably boosts sales, however they would prefer not to support the previous versions.

 

That is where the catch 22 comes in for them, IT wants hardware and operating systems to last 8 to 10 years, it is expensive for them to be on the constant upgrade treadmill, so the OEM's try to cater to them because it is a large part of their income and support services are/can be lucrative, however it is counter productive to their first and foremost goal, to sell new hardware.

 

This is where Linux will have a hard time cracking the stranglehold Microsoft has on the desktop market.

 

In the IT world Linux does extremely well and is gaining ground, because that is what so many governments, businesses and schools are asking for. It's relatively easy to support there, because they provide a certain number of configurations and only support those configurations and because the turn over is a long life cycle it isn't expensive for them to do this. However if the OEM's had it their way they wouldn't do it at all, they don't even want to support win2000, or XP now that Vista has been released because it is expensive to do so, but they continue because it is what the IT customer wants, and "future" sales depend on the fact that they will provide support for 8 to 10 years on a product.

 

Now it isn't because Linux is more difficult, or because they couldn't support it on the desktop if they wanted to, it is because they have their hands full supporting three or four versions of Windows as it is, and throwing another OS into the mix is not an attractive thing for them. This goes leads to the Many people have invested themselves in the Microsoft economy and the monopoly profits on which it's based , and these people fear Linux. Fear leads to muddied analysis and very bad assumptions.

 

So a company like Dell, just to please a few folks will do something idiotic like install "Linspire" and say *look we offer Linux*. They do this because they mistakenly made a bad analysis and assumed it would be enough to satisfy people. Their muddied analysis and assumptions lead to a higher cost and investment because those units don't sell, those units don't sell because they never bothered to "ask" the consumer as they are now doing. They ask now because they are in financial trouble and are trying to do anything they can to get back into the black.

 

To be honest, I really do not think they ever imagined they would get the overwhelming response they are getting for open source solutions, I honestly believe they thought they would get more windows related responses about their crappy telephone support, and or some new whiz bang windows application.

 

Do I think they will listen to their own survey/what do you want web page. NOPE, I don't.

 

I think they will for the most part ignore it, I think for the most part they will consider it too expensive to support another operating system on their main stream desktop machines. I think they would love the rapid rate that Linux advances and how often new releases are put out, because they could advertise a new OS every year and sell more hardware, but at the same time I don't think they want to support more systems, not because other systems are more difficult, but because they already have 3 or 4 or more that they have to support, and adding another one or two looks like an overwhelming task to them.

 

It's the FUD factor that prevents Linux on the mainstream vendors desktops, nothing else.

 

Dell won't do it, not in any significant way anyways, they will as they do now, make a very small effort just so they can say they do it. But the reality is they don't want to, and won't put much effort into it.

Edited by Bruce

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I just have to agree with bruce here. I've seen the specs on computers pre-installed with Linspire, and they really suck. I don't think the market analysis went much beyond

 

1) Linux is free

2) Linux users are cheap

3) Lets offer a super low price bundle.

 

Come ON! Don't expect it to be all whiz bang on a Sempron cpu with 128MB RAM.

 

Its like it was set up to fail, so that they could have "proof" that people don't really even want Linux, and that they can continue to bury their heads in the sand.

 

And yeah, my hands would be full trying to support different versions of windows even on a home network. I gave up with windows, its too confusing. I can share one way if i have xp pro,? and there can be only one server? this one can be prt of a domain and this one cant? it confuses the hell out of me. I'm lucky if i can even get windows to see the other computers on the network, let alone share files. I guess i'm supposed to spend the big bucks and get a server version of vindows then my life would be much simpler :rolleyes:

 

I'm sharing files lrft right and backwards with linux, with no special requirements. it really not that difficult :)

 

EDIT: Kool Aid is good! and i'm not bothering to fix my other typos

Edited by Flying Caveman

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I am not agreeing with you at all.

 

Offering Linspire on a couple computers to people in "Europe" is not at all in any way shape or form making any kind of reasonable attempt.

 

It is a half hearted, lame attempt to do nothing other then say *we are doing it* when the reality is, they are not doing it, the world entails much more then Europe, and Linspire is to put it plainly a piece of crap.

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Not you Bruce....Flying Caveman.

 

You couldn't agree with me if I said the sky was blue.

 

Thats because it isn't blue............it is grey right now :tup:

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Chopdoc, I live in Europe. Please link me to a page where I can get a Dell laptop without Windows pre-installed. (I live in Wales)

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I can't. They are supposed to be shipping N Series notebooks in Europe according to my info...but the link on the website gets an unexplained "we're sorry" page. I am told that they will ship Inspirons without an OS on request but there is no such option on the website. Perhaps a call to them can get one. I went to school with one of their regional directors and my info comes from him.

 

Very distressing.

 

 

BTW Dell did offer Linux as an option on desktops in 1999. Demand was too low so they stopped.

 

 

These are their current responses to the suggestions:

 

http://www.dell.com/content/topics/global....;l=en&s=gen

 

http://direct2dell.com/one2one/default.aspx

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And so I was right.

 

They will not honor the request, they won't even consider the number one request, simply put they won't do it, they refuse to "pre-install" Linux on their computers and laptops.

 

Instead the will jump down to about the 30th place request with 100 or so responses do it, and then tout how they listen to the consumer :rofl3:

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This may be of interest:

 

http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,1895,1860031,00.asp

 

September 16, 2005

 

While Dell Inc. recommends the use of Windows XP Professional, in France Dell and Mandriva S.A. have announced the availability of a Dell laptop preloaded with Mandriva Linux.

 

And apparently Bruce has not read Dell's responses to the requests. :rolleyes:

 

 

 

 

 

Sept 22, 2005- Dell does not go out of its way to publicize this—preferring to leave the sales and marketing to its channel partners—but for more than a year, it has been the only mainstream PC maker to make pre-loaded Linux machines available, either online or in stores.

http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,1895,1862388,00.asp

 

 

And so...yes Bruce...the sky is gray.

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I did read their response, I read it and understood it very, very well. Perhaps you didn't understand it. :lol: Please show me where they said they would offer openSUSE, Ubuntu, or Fedora Linux preloaded on their desktops and laptops in the United States.

 

By the way in case you haven't noticed, I don't live in France, and Mandriva was not one of the distros on the list that got 10's of thousands of requests. ;)

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I guess I'll have to spell it out then.... that was in 2005. The second time that Dell offered Linux as a preload, granted it is limited and not a popular distro. The first time was in 99, and that was not limited.

 

 

Why do you ask me to show you something that does not exist?

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Spell it out for me?

 

maybe I haven't read their response?

 

I beg to differ, and contend that either you have not read their response, or you do not undertsand it.

 

Let me spell it out for you literally

 

It’s exciting to see the IdeaStorm community’s interest in open source solutions like Linux and OpenOffice. Your feedback has been all about flexibility and we have seen a consistent request to provide platforms that allow people to install their operating system of choice. We are listening,

they say they are listening, but apparently they are not. The number one request, almost 90,000 now, and more then double the second place request, does not ask for a way to install an alternative operating system, that is a no brainer as anyone can do that any time they wish.

 

The number one request asks for the "most popular" Linux distributions to be pre-installed on mainstream desktops and laptops, that means the same machines that everyone else in the desktop consumer market has available with windows. ;)

 

They go one to say

 

In the last week, the IdeaStorm community suggested more than half a dozen distributions. We don't want to pick one distribution and alienate users with a preference for another. We want users to have the opportunity to help define the market for Linux on desktop and notebook systems.

This is a lame way of saying, we understand what people want, but are unwilling to give it to them. They of course in the previous paragraph contradicted themselves when they said, they picked Novell to have their distribution "certified" as working. :rofl3:

 

We are listening, and as a result, we are working with Novell to certify our corporate client products for Linux,

Of course that has nothing to do with their consumer level machines, but only their corporate client products, and has nothing to do with pre-installing SuSE, only having it certified.

 

Doublespeak, FUD, avoidance of the number one request, in favor of lesser requests because those lesser requests deal with "Microsoft" Windows.

 

You only need go back to see that I said they would do exactly what they are doing.

 

Blowing hot air up the :filtered: of the open source community.

 

The difference is, average folks in the open source community are not as gullible as the average folks in the Windows based community. We don't listen to the "marketing" garbage, we see it for what it is, and keep pressing our case. Because in the end, all the marketing, and blowing of hot air is just that, and it amounts to nothing.

 

Actions speak 100 times louder than words. When they take action, they will be applauded, until then, they are nothing more then Microsoft's mouthpiece promising the world, and delivering vaporware.

Edited by Bruce

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