Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
shogan191

The cost of operating

Recommended Posts

There's just no way to completely overlook all the rumors about Vista this year. Tighter control, increased cost, we've all heard the rumblings.

 

I'm an overclocker. I love getting new hardware. "My" concern started when I had a question as to whether I'd be able to install Visat on the ,way too many, hardware configurations I use during a year. I only have it installed on one PC mind you but I build and rebuild that one pc constantly. The average year could have me using 6 to 8 motherboards, 5 cpus, 6 video cards; but only one build at a time. The new EULA had me unable to install Vista after the first configuration. The problem was voiced by several overclocking sites with screams of foul and rants vowing to write new benchmarks compatable with open source operating systems. Eventually it was stated that the final product would take into account the few overclockers in the world. At least one of Vista's many forms would allow for multiple installs as long as it wasn't installed or activated on more than one machine at a time. I relaxed for a couple of weeks.

 

Shocker number 2. Talking with a local retailer about the cool new video cards out this year I glanced at a bid laying on the counter. My knees buckled. Not because of the enormous load they tote around everyday either. Over half of that bids rather hefty total was for operating system software. I couldn't believe it. I'd only seen the normal single windows XP price. Not server software for multiple machines. It was insane. Who the heck would pay that much. Suddenly the world made sense. The huge number of multimillion dollar homes in my city were inhabited by people selling Windows. How could businesses afford to pay that much?

Tonight I'm wondering how much this XP replacement is going to cost me. I'm sure I won't be able to use the OEM version. Even if it's sold with hardware like XP, I'm betting it can't be installed on more than the hardware with which it was purchased. So how much is the Ultimate, Full function, no holds barred, Retail Version, with a large box, going to cost me? $300.00? $500.00? Will it take more than an hour to innoculate, validate, and get me up and running legally after the first round of hardware? The truth is I don't know. I do know that this version of windows is getting it's fair share of double takes though. Here's an article that caught my eye today. It's quoted in a short piece from the Inquirer. Take a look.

 

 

 

 

http://mandriva.blogspot.com/2007/01/tamil...ut-door-on.html

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yep, that's what we are all hopping but still has me worried. Seeing a country the size of India maybe going to "open source" is attention getting also.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm just saying that it's already relatively hard to use XP on multiple configurations. If Vista is even harder it may be too much. It's not that I want to use open source, I don't. It's that I worry that it may be impossible to use Vista because of cost and restrictions. Keeping in mind that I've installed my copy of XP probably around 500 times since I bought it. Infact I'd say 500 at least.

 

"The problem, of course, was that some people felt they could install a single copy of Windows as many times as they wanted. "It's always been per copy, per device," Boettcher said.

 

With Windows Vista, the EULA has been clarified. It now explicitly states that a user may "reassign the [Windows Vista] license to another device one time." This, the pundits say, is a huge restriction that wasn't present in Windows XP. Many people incorrectly believe this to be the case.

 

What's more amazing is that the number of people who actually try to do this is incredibly small. Since you can't transfer a copy of Windows that comes with a new PC anyway, less than 10 percent of all Windows licenses are transferable at all. "

 

It's a huge restriction. I might have 5 different configurations in a week with 7 or 8 installs but only one is in service at a time. The eula for Vista will have to change or it's interpretation will.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

if you cant beat em join em :)

 

if software vendors are forced to port there products in order to make money it will happen, they do not have any intentions to lose money!

 

there may be issues to that, nero for an example, they ported there software to linux but it wasnt as good as the opensource versions that will rip dvds, burn cd's and encode and transcode the data, in fact nero in my opinion was horrible and costed alot$ so some will lose and some will win.

 

ms is losing on there stock and that also forces investors to sale sale sale sale

 

this may affect the way ms prices there os and they may except that vista is a failure

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It's a huge restriction. I might have 5 different configurations in a week with 7 or 8 installs but only one is in service at a time. The eula for Vista will have to change or it's interpretation will.

 

show did i mis out on something, didnt they say they will allow you to reinstall as many times as you needed :huh:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I currently have 6 desktop computers, and two laptops.........Vista Ultimate = $399 x 8 = not in my house you won't see windows :lol: $3,200 dollars.

 

Anyone who would shell out that kind of cash to use an operating system on multiple computers fell and hit their heads realllllllyyyyy hard :laughing:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

show did i mis out on something, didnt they say they will allow you to reinstall as many times as you needed :huh:

 

 

Yep, they did say that. But I still know that saying something and actually practicing it are two different things. I'd like to see something in the EULA that backs that up.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Not sure exactly but as far as I know it's just that they aren't written to run on Linux. I don't know anything about code or writing programs so I'm not sure what it would take.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yep, they did say that. But I still know that saying something and actually practicing it are two different things. I'd like to see something in the EULA that backs that up.

 

that is a typical ms tactic there!

 

i would be surprised myself if they would back that up, there strict rules makes me wonder, better yet i dont even have to assume they want to take control of your computer, but ya know they would save alot of time and effort if they just focused on the real issues like security and stand firm against pirating without affecting the end user, its like a never ending story with antitrust tactical bs telling there customers what they can and cannot do even if your not going to do what they think you will :)

Edited by duanester

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think you have some very legitimate questions Sho that I have thought about myself. I think I will wait awhile to see what happens! In other words let other people be the guinea pigs.

Vista is very unclear in the fact that most drivers won't work with it such as Nvidia raid deivers. It will ither make or brake MS. They eventually will have to conform to the needs of consumers and not the needs or dictation of theirselfs or will suffer substantial losses.

It's very intresting to see what happens as you know XP had a lot of bugs in the begining and took awhile to iron out the problems, but eventually became a decent operating system!

I will wait myself to see how it works out and will not buy anything from the start and let others be the guinea pig. Windows 98 hung around for a very long time after the start up of XP as they worked out their driver issues.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I love the idea of having the benchmarks running on Linux. That would be good for both communities. What hinderences are preventing that?

 

Software developers prevent that, by using the proprietary DirectX instead of the industry standard OpenGL. Online tests prevent it again by using the proprietary "activex" instead of cross platform standards such as java..........

 

OpenGL is "THE" industry standard when it comes to 3D, every operating system is capable of using OpenGL. Java is crass platform, and every operating system is capable of using Java.

 

So when you test your comptuer, you are not testing with industry standards, in my opinion when not using industry standards then you are not testing hardware. You are testing Microsoft's proprietary API's. Which of course are impossible to compare to anything else, because they don't run on anything else.

 

What it comes down to is lazy developers, who limit their potential, revenue, and experience because they either don't understand what an "industry standard" is, or they simply don't care. Some folks understand this others don't.

 

Companies like Google, will always be ten steps ahead of the competition because they understand this, and make attempts to make all their services and free applications available for all computers regardless of the operating system of choice.

 

Sites and software developers who ignore standards only harm themselves. Kind if like flushing 15% of you paycheck down the toilet every week, because well, because, because....................your guess is as good any I suppose :laughing:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well knowing how business works I'd have to think that it costs more to use the OpenGl than they will make by using it. How did a non standard come to be used most frequently for games and benchmarks to begin with? Follow the money.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

show, its proprietary http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proprietary

 

why would ms do this, you have to know sho, you just have to :lol:

 

edit: show there trying to do exactly what everyone is saying, they want your computer, they want to make your pc proprietary to there operating system!

 

they dont want you to go anywhere else, your trapped in a windows world taken control of

Edited by duanester

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

they have the gaming market sewed up, but for nongamers macs and linux can take care of many user needs, but all depends on what you do with your computer...if ms develops tools that make it easer for developers or the average coder then how are they wrong? sure it can lead to a monopoly, of course ms's monopoly is broader than that in many areas, but when you try to please everyone including business's, then your going to have things others hate...hard to please everyone yet make it useful to all as well

 

use the os that has your needs available, their all good for certain things

i'm a gamer, ms hasnt ever wronged me so i cant hate them and it does what i need, mac is quite propriatary too, console gaming is very propriatary, which is good for several reasons, helps developers make it easier and faster for them, open source has its advantages/disadvantages too...but again its all in what you want from your computer

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

use the os that has your needs available

i do :)

 

they have the gaming market sewed up

for the meantime :mrgreen:

 

i'm a gamer

me too!

 

ms hasnt ever wronged me

they wronged me many times ! but i wont go into the specifics with those on the dark side :lol:

 

but again its all in what you want from your computer

do you mean what ms wants you to do :laughing:

 

edit: just messin with ya with the quotes, dont get affended :)

Edited by duanester

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

the industry standard OpenGL. Online tests prevent it again by using the proprietary "activex" instead of cross platform standards such as java..........

 

Well if you read and understand Java, it is totally 2d period! If you run your world totally on 2D you might make a lot of Nvidia fans happy! ;)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

Well if you read and understand Java, it is totally 2d period! If you run your world totally on 2D you might make a lot of Nvidia fans happy! ;)

 

i dont think thats true, if we talk about light weight java you can design quality games to be written in Java with 3d graphics along with 3d sound using open graphics library -meaning opengl :P

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well if you read and understand Java, it is totally 2d period! If you run your world totally on 2D you might make a lot of Nvidia fans happy! ;)

 

Certainly is not true. I would have you look at Suns looking Glass, but that is a moot point as OpenGL is the graphics engine/standard and java ain't got squat to do with it, anymore then activex has anything to do with 2D or 3D.

 

The point is web sites use the "proprietary" activex to make requests to the OS from a web page, java can do the same thing, and do it better, not only better, but more securely and it works in any operating system.

 

 

In any case I understand it, but think you could use to do a little more reading, you can start here.

 

 

http://www.tgs.com/index.htm?pro_div/3dms_j_main.htm~main

 

http://jmol.sourceforge.net/

 

http://www.javaworld.com/javaworld/jw-01-1...w-01-media.html

 

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=3...G=Google+Search

 

http://www.opengl.org/

 

I could have posted a thousand more but figured that was enough to keep ya busy :lol:

Edited by Bruce

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well knowing how business works I'd have to think that it costs more to use the OpenGl than they will make by using it. How did a non standard come to be used most frequently for games and benchmarks to begin with? Follow the money.

 

Do we really need the whole history of of how Microsoft became a "monopoly" through illegal activity, and illegal business practices in this thread?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

there was an article right from the horses mouth, i cant remember what page it was on, i will look for it, it was comments from 3dmark :cr@sh:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Do we really need the whole history of of how Microsoft became a "monopoly" through illegal activity, and illegal business practices in this thread?

 

LOL, probably not. It might be nice to know that others didn't drop the ball though. What's stopping someone form writing a successful game that works on both operating systems? Is it possible to do that? If it's already been done is the game successful? I think I know the answer to that but what about COD 2 Windows and COD2 Linux?

 

Microsoft's job as a corporation is to make as much money and secure itself as much as it can.

Government's job is to create, enact, and eforce the laws that control corporations. ( one of their jobs anyway)

Whose job is it to make a wildly popular game that can be played on multiple operating systems?

 

One of the reasons I started this thread was because I think Microsoft is getting close to forcing consumers to their competators, even though that is not what they ultimately want. I'm wondering if the competition is ready for the average "ignorant" user. So far I don't think they are. If they were, I the average ignorant user, would be using Linux. If I could run "the" Benchmarks and play "the" games on Linux I'd have it. It's not microsoft that's stopped Futuremark from coding benchmarks for Linux. If the desire or money were there, it would be done already.

 

You can bet that Microsoft is acutely aware of just how far they can push. It's their job to know.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

There are 3d libraries for Java....

 

The problem with Java is that it's bloated, extremely. Take that from someone who programs it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

LOL, probably not. It might be nice to know that others didn't drop the ball though. What's stopping someone form writing a successful game that works on both operating systems? Is it possible to do that? If it's already been done is the game successful? I think I know the answer to that but what about COD 2 Windows and COD2 Linux?

 

Microsoft's job as a corporation is to make as much money and secure itself as much as it can.

Government's job is to create, enact, and eforce the laws that control corporations. ( one of their jobs anyway)

Whose job is it to make a wildly popular game that can be played on multiple operating systems?

 

One of the reasons I started this thread was because I think Microsoft is getting close to forcing consumers to their competators, even though that is not what they ultimately want. I'm wondering if the competition is ready for the average "ignorant" user. So far I don't think they are. If they were, I the average ignorant user, would be using Linux. If I could run "the" Benchmarks and play "the" games on Linux I'd have it. It's not microsoft that's stopped Futuremark from coding benchmarks for Linux. If the desire or money were there, it would be done already.

 

You can bet that Microsoft is acutely aware of just how far they can push. It's their job to know.

 

Of course there are games that run on both systems.

 

Quake, Quake2, Quake3, Quake4

 

RTCW

 

Doom

 

Unreal Tournament

 

and many many others, then there are the games that run in cedega

 

In my opinion the best games available use openGL

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
Sign in to follow this  

×
×
  • Create New...