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Neonknight77

My school just got this junk

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alternatives, possibly, but not the same software likely

 

each os has it's strentghs. for me it's windows atm 'cause it's the best with playing a large number of games. though i do have linux installed on another to play with as a server since MS would like me to take out a loan to get server software, LMAO

 

macs, our school had a load of them and i really don't like the idiot guided way of doing things. granted they did have everything locked down to limited user accounts, but you could usually only do this, or only do that. and they seemed sooooo SLOW compared to my p3 733 running xp at home. i mean the desktop looked more like what a toy should look like.

 

but again, it's likely just the way the school had them setup and then locked down. which in the end didn't do much good 'cause the program was hacked numerous times on the admin level and crap changed around. plus at the begining of the year all user acounts passwords were reset to the graduating year and class they were in. that obviously lead to hijacks.

 

'nuff with that run away thought though, lol.

 

bruce, i'm not sure why you made the comment of the principles wisdom of selecting macs? MS based pcs can also be had through the same type of grant money programs.... and from personal experience, more businesses use ms products on their computers than i've seen apple mac stuff used.

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I said it because MAC OSX is a far superior operating system compared to windows. The thread is about schools, not gaming, not running software to cheat on games.........

 

It may cost more to purchase a MAC, but when you consider the enormous amount of time to lock down and maintain windows computers "properly" the cost more then balances out. In fact the man hours to properly secure and maintain our high schools windows computers is out of control. 800+ computers the IT personel can't keep up with all the problems. The computers are only 2 years old now, and the whole school network has been infected and completely taken off line several times, costing thousands and thousands of dollars.

 

Of course being on the Microsoft extortion ...........err I mean upgrade program they will be purchasing all new software and operating systems very soon, office and Vista will cost them in the range of 280,000 just for the forced upgrades they have signed up for, that does not include the man hours to install and configure it on each computer. Likely bringing the costs up to the half million dollar range. Then of course there are the numerous server OS installations costing in the thousands, plus all the seats they have to purchase so the desktops can connect to those servers...........toss in all the spyware, virus, and spam software and the costs skyrocket again.

 

The costs of using Microsoft products is enormous.

 

So yes the schools principle is a very wise man.

 

As for the systems you have used, I can't comment on except to say, garbage in garbage out. I would bet that they had some flunky with a MS cert setting up the MAC's :lol: If they were slow, they were obviously mis-configured very badly. I had a Mac G4 400mhz with 256mb of PC 100 ram running Mac OSX Panther and it ran very well, in fact better then many 1.5 GhZ Windows based PC's I have used. ;)

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Yes, I have looked at the title of this thread.

 

The author of the thread was not being pompous, just ignorant.

 

In fact, xXenXx was pompous as he spoke in a sarcastic manner which indicates superior undertones.

 

And lastly, Bruce, you do not imply what you infer.

 

:thud:

 

Why do I bother...

 

 

SCAR 2.03. Program used to cheat games. Use it every day.

Thats nothing but a hex editor for idiots; learn to command a raw code-hex editor and you will achieve much better results.

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bruce, windows, just like many other o/s, can be rolled out from a server across the entire network. you prolly already knew that. base line security policies can also be rolled out through an authentication server, so not much should need done on the windows pcs. it's how our 2 local colleges do that.

 

as for the flunky IT guy, you're prolly right. he replaced one mac just 'cause he didn't want to mess w/ getting the NIC to connect to the network. he also had all IP's assigned at the machine, which to me seems CRAZY. also meant that people could go in thinking they know how to fix connection problems and change the IP to another computers which obvious created VAST problems w/ not being able to connect to the network. macs and our it guy = bad

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bruce, windows, just like many other o/s, can be rolled out from a server across the entire network. you prolly already knew that. base line security policies can also be rolled out through an authentication server, so not much should need done on the windows pcs. it's how our 2 local colleges do that.

 

as for the flunky IT guy, you're prolly right. he replaced one mac just 'cause he didn't want to mess w/ getting the NIC to connect to the network. he also had all IP's assigned at the machine, which to me seems CRAZY. also meant that people could go in thinking they know how to fix connection problems and change the IP to another computers which obvious created VAST problems w/ not being able to connect to the network. macs and our it guy = bad

 

You ever roll out an OS over a network? Ever see the mass problems it creates? Ever see the driver and software problems? Not to mention each PC still needs to be configured to do it. As easy as you make it sound, trust me it isn't easy to roll out a new OS to different hardware, with different devices attached................ It is not a simple thing to do :lol: Horror show would bee the best term for it.

 

Rolling out patches via a network server to windows PC's is one thing, rolling out a new operating system is a whole different ball of wax.

 

That is where MAC systems have the biggest advantage over all other operating systems. They don't have to support 2000 different hardware configurations. Their OS is tailored to their hardware. Roll out of a new OS is a breeze in comparison.

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well, most the pc's were all the same there. sure the teachers pc's might have had different stuff atached, but they were all laptops that were their responsibility.

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Speaking of costs, have you ever been through a software audit? "They", meaning the software police, will charge you up to three times the retail value of the software. MS isn't the only software that makes up this group. Adobe is part of it as well as some others.

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bruce, windows, just like many other o/s, can be rolled out from a server across the entire network. you prolly already knew that. base line security policies can also be rolled out through an authentication server, so not much should need done on the windows pcs. it's how our 2 local colleges do that.

 

as for the flunky IT guy, you're prolly right. he replaced one mac just 'cause he didn't want to mess w/ getting the NIC to connect to the network. he also had all IP's assigned at the machine, which to me seems CRAZY. also meant that people could go in thinking they know how to fix connection problems and change the IP to another computers which obvious created VAST problems w/ not being able to connect to the network. macs and our it guy = bad

 

I do the kind of work you're talking about and its nowhere near as easy as you claim. It is a CONSTANT job trying to maintain all of those computers even with the ability to push the OS from a server as well as having the ability to push software remotely. We have a list of about 15 different Windows configurations to choose from for all of the different types of computers there are to deal with. Even with that list being the major timesaver it is, we still have to test and further configure every computer we do that to because things go wrong more often than I'd like for what seems like no reason.

 

My job is constant scrubbing, cleaning, poking, prodding, reinstalling and restarting. I'm glad people who love Windows for illogical reasons exist... they keep me employed. :) If the company used *nix on the hundreds of computers in the building it'd take 4 of us to maintain the whole thing instead of the dozen or so there are now.

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Guest badbinary

i hate to tell you, but your system must be poorly thought-out and poorly managed.

 

i maintained a network of 200+ computers in 7 locations throughout wisconsin...it was just me and 2 assistants. all systems running windows with 8 windows servers.

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You rolled out a new operating system on those 200 computers remotely, and had no driver issues or software issues? :huh:

 

I would love to be witness to that.

 

Where MAC has an advantage over all other operating systems in such a scenario is that the operating system was specifically designed with specific hardware. It just works..........

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yes. we used symantec ghost for imaging the computers. it's very easy to make a versatile image using sysprep. you will have to deal with the limitation of the images only working with similar hals, but that's not too big of an issue as you can just make different images.

Edited by badbinary

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My point exactly, different images, different hardware, different peripherals..................just isn't as easy as a Mac OS, designed to work on Mac systems.

 

One image supports them all, and any device attached to a Mac will work with a newer version of Mac OS.

 

The same can not be said when rolling out any other OS.

 

Ghosting an image has so many limitations in comparison.

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wow this is old, lol

 

the roll outs i've been a part of were pretty simple, one we did use the norton ghost thing which was pretty much a click and let multiple gigs fly around the network, LOL

 

at akron though we did have a fun time w/ the OLD pc's that we didn't roll out to. they wanted EVERY pc to have xp pro on it. so there we are sitting in some teachers office w/ a 400 meg cpu upgrading to xp pro...... do about 1 job a day it takes so long. but other than having to just be there manually, we used scripts that once started would connect itself to an older server and download the os update, and the 6 or so software things we needed. i only once had a periphial problem w/ rollouts and that was a printer that was no longer supported under xp.

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Guest badbinary

My point exactly, different images, different hardware, different peripherals..................just isn't as easy as a Mac OS, designed to work on Mac systems.

 

One image supports them all, and any device attached to a Mac will work with a newer version of Mac OS.

 

The same can not be said when rolling out any other OS.

 

Ghosting an image has so many limitations in comparison.

 

 

 

i can't, and i'm not, arguing with you about the advantage macs have in that regard. i'm just making a point about what neo said.

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The network I deal with is far larger than yours, for one. We did inventory last summer and it was somewhere in the ballpark of 700 computers. And the needs are apparently far more varied. Some people need certain applications that others do not (a major pain in the butt, lemme tell you :lol: ). Some people have access rights that most don't (generally not difficult to handle). There's a dozen different models of Dell pre-built computers in use at the moment and of those quite a few have had certain hardware added or removed as necessary for whatever reason and until we finally switched EVERYBODY to XP, three versions of Windows (here's where things get hairy). Taking into consideration the sheer volume that we deal with, most of the time things go smoothly, but there hasn't been one day where everything went according to plan.

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woo all OS's are good....... yea i like windows better just becuase i like the layout better and i never used one of the new macs... i only used the old ones... from like 1995 lol

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Be greatful for the Macs, you're getting an opportunity to learn a different system. My kids school is Windows based and they wouldnt even know how to turn a Mac on.

School IT these days should include tuition about basic operating systems. Unfortunately most schools don't bother.

Why not treat this as a positive, and learn to become fully conversant with a Mac?

It may even help you career-wise.

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andrew, i feel you on this

 

everyone grab a linux os or mac machine, linux is free btw, try it to see if you can do things you do on windows ;)

 

 

i can do more once i learned how to use them, infact i found windows useless "a complete useless operating system for me"

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Macs come with software that students can use to make cool projects ... iMovie, iPhoto, Garageband, iDVD, plus an Oxford Dictionary and Thesaurus that's well integrated (hover your cursor over a word in a Safari web page and press control-command-D).

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A few comments on this war:

 

Every OS has its own aspects, advantages and disadvantages

 

Advantages:

  • Macs are much, much, easier to use media-wise. Edit a video? Already have the software, and it's pretty top stuff too.
  • Macs require less maintenance
  • Macs interface is in many ways "sleeker" than Windows
  • Windows can run anything that you find on the internet, be it a tool, a game, the PCPitstop tests, flash games, etc.
  • Windows can play almost every game created, and even more using emulators
  • Almost everybody I know has a Windows computer, they might have a Mac or Linux too
Disadvantages:

  • Macs are very restricted as far as finding programs that you can download and use
  • Macs cannot use DirectX
  • Macs have almost no games worth mentioning
  • Macs only have no major maintenance needed because hackers (etc) don't consider them a financially worthy target
  • Macs are uniform in hardware specs because they are as hard as crap to build/change
  • Windows is the biggest target; most cracking has some past experience to make it easier
  • Windows bogs down after a year or two
Windows for me! Although a use Macs a lot too, I just find them limiting.

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Macs are very restricted as far as finding programs that you can download and use

 

This is completely untrue. If you had said "lack of commercial software" or something like it, then maybe I would have bought it, but the software you run on a mac is restricted only by what does and doesn't exist. Most nix software has mac ports, and there is a lot of nix software.

 

Macs cannot use DirectX

 

True, but you make it sound like it's Apple's fault.

 

Macs have almost no games worth mentioning

 

Go to Apple's webpage, or Amazon. Yeah a lot of games are Windows only, but saying that mac has no games is a straight-up lie. Really, go on Amazon. I dare you.

 

Macs only have no major maintenance needed because hackers (etc) don't consider them a financially worthy target

:thud: Maintenance is maintenance. If anything, mac's should be a bigger target for hackers. People who buy from Apple usually share two things in common: they have a lot of money, and they don't know, or care, how to use computers. Luckily for them, OS X has bsd at it's core, and Apple is usually pretty good about security updates (unlike someone else who shall remain anonymous). There's a reason you don't need <insert specific anti-virus suite> on mac.

 

Macs are uniform in hardware specs because they are as hard as crap to build/change

 

Ummm.... I'm not even sure what to say here. If you really believe that... wow.

 

Macs are uniform in hardware specs because no one can really sell 3rd party hardware. Apple let other companies do this once, and it didn't go well for them. Also, typically people by Apple because they want a black-box solution. They don't care about what makes it tick, they just want a shiny toaster that works.

 

Windows bogs down after a year or two

 

A properly maintained Windows box will last a lot longer than that, as much as I hate to admit it.

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This is completely untrue. If you had said "lack of commercial software" or something like it, then maybe I would have bought it, but the software you run on a mac is restricted only by what does and doesn't exist. Most nix software has mac ports, and there is a lot of nix software.

 

Almost everything I see advertised doesn't have a Mac version. And when I google to learn about programming, html, cars, simulations, etc, then they are all for Windows and maybe have a Mac version too. To find things for Macs you have to make an effort or add "Mac" to the search words.

 

True, but you make it sound like it's Apple's fault.

 

No, I'm just stating + and - of the OS. That's fact. And the only reason it matters (and therefore I mention it) is because so many things use it.

 

Go to Apple's webpage, or Amazon. Yeah a lot of games are Windows only, but saying that mac has no games is a straight-up lie. Really, go on Amazon. I dare you.

 

Okay, comparably no games. And most of them are not major titles.

 

:thud: Maintenance is maintenance. If anything, mac's should be a bigger target for hackers. People who buy from Apple usually share two things in common: they have a lot of money, and they don't know, or care, how to use computers. Luckily for them, OS X has bsd at it's core, and Apple is usually pretty good about security updates (unlike someone else who shall remain anonymous). There's a reason you don't need <insert specific anti-virus suite> on mac.

 

But that's not how it works. It is not just about who/what the people are; it matters about how many there are they can hack. MS is already under a full barrage, so it's much harder for them to cover their bases, so it's easier to hack and keep that weakness under the radar. If somebody hacked a Mac, then they could easily correct the problem due to it being only one thing.

 

Ummm.... I'm not even sure what to say here. If you really believe that... wow.

 

That wasn't made by me, I have no idea. The IT for Shodor said you need a fistful of screwdrivers to undue all of the different screws. Macs are made to just work. You aren't supposed to open it or switch-n-swap.

 

Macs are uniform in hardware specs because no one can really sell 3rd party hardware. Apple let other companies do this once, and it didn't go well for them. Also, typically people by Apple because they want a black-box solution. They don't care about what makes it tick; they just want a shiny toaster that works.

 

So Macs are good for people who don't care how it works? I thought the whole campaign was "innovation" kinda hard if you can't even get it open, or buy parts...

 

For me that means Windows is even better because I can choose what part I want to upgrade, change, etc.

 

A properly maintained Windows box will last a lot longer than that, as much as I hate to admit it.

 

Yes it will last longer, but it does have performance degrading before a couple of years.

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Almost everything I see advertised doesn't have a Mac version. And when I google to learn about programming, html, cars, simulations, etc, then they are all for Windows and maybe have a Mac version too. To find things for Macs you have to make an effort or add "Mac" to the search words.

No, I'm just stating + and - of the OS. That's fact. And the only reason it matters (and therefore I mention it) is because so many things use it.

Okay, comparably no games. And most of them are not major titles.

But that's not how it works. It is not just about who/what the people are; it matters about how many there are they can hack. MS is already under a full barrage, so it's much harder for them to cover their bases, so it's easier to hack and keep that weakness under the radar. If somebody hacked a Mac, then they could easily correct the problem due to it being only one thing.

That wasn't made by me, I have no idea. The IT for Shodor said you need a fistful of screwdrivers to undue all of the different screws. Macs are made to just work. You aren't supposed to open it or switch-n-swap.

So Macs are good for people who don't care how it works? I thought the whole campaign was "innovation" kinda hard if you can't even get it open, or buy parts...

 

For me that means Windows is even better because I can choose what part I want to upgrade, change, etc.

Yes it will last longer, but it does have performance degrading before a couple of years.

 

Are you serious?

 

Yeah, you have to make a "real effort". adding in the word "mac" to your google search. It's really easy to find mac software; it sounds like you're trying to find windows programs you are used to for the mac.

 

The powermac g5 and the mac pro are extremely easy to open. Same for the powermac g4, g3, etc. The only ones that are harder to open are because of their form factor..

But you're able to open pretty much all of them except the notebooks, and you're able to upgrade the ram, hard drives, etc.

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So Macs are good for people who don't care how it works? I thought the whole campaign was "innovation" kinda hard if you can't even get it open, or buy parts...

Innovation on the part of the manufacturer, by swapping out your Pentium III with a Pentium IV you aren't innovating; you're upgrading.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Macintosh_games

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Macintosh_software

 

I'm not sure you did your research...

Edited by xXenXx

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